asyncly VS runtimelab

One of the main benefits of async/await in Rust is that it can work in situations where you don't even have threads or dynamic memory. You can absolutely use it to write very concise code that's waiting on an interrupt on your microcontroller to have read some data coming in over I2C from some buffer. It's a higher level abstraction that allows your code to use concurrency (mostly) without having tons of interactions with the underlying runtime.

Every major piece of software that I have worked on has implemented this in one form or another (even in non-modern C++ where you don't have any coroutine concepts, Apple's grand central dispatch,). If you don't then your business logic will either be very imperformantly block on IO, have a gazillion of threads that make development/debugging a living hell, or be littered with implementation details of the underlying runtime or a combination of all 3.

If you don't use existing abstractions in the language (or through some library), you will end up building them yourselves, which is hard and probably overall inferior to widely used ones (if there are any). I have done so in the past, see https://github.com/goto-opensource/asyncly.

Keep in mind that these is a really basic building block where you can bring your own runtime and hook coroutines into it, not something that is at all usable out of the box. This is exacerbated by the fact that the C++ standard library is still lacking support for non-blocking futures/promises.

To see how it can be used for actual asynchronous operations on a thread pool, take a look at asyncly, which I co-authored:

https://github.com/LogMeIn/asyncly/blob/master/Test/Unit/fut...

There was a "green thread" experiment for dotnet a while ago, here is the conclusion: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

Experiment result write-up: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/blob/e69dda51c7d796b812...

TLDR: The green threads experiment was a failure as it found (expected and obvious) issues that the Java applications are now getting to enjoy, joining their Go colleagues, while also requiring breaking changes. It, however, gave inspiration to subsequent re-examination of current async/await implementation and whether it can be improved by moving state machine generation and execution away from IL completely to runtime. It was a massive success as evidenced by preliminary overhead estimations in the results.

Yeah, it kind of is. There are quite a few of experiments that are conducted to see if they show promise in the prototype form and then are taken further for proper integration if they do.

Unfortunately, object stack allocation was not one of them even though DOTNET_JitObjectStackAllocation configuration knob exists today, enabling it makes zero impact as it almost never kicks in. By the end of the experiment[0], it was concluded that before investing effort in this kind of feature becomes profitable given how a lot of C# code is written, there are many other lower hanging fruits.

To contrast this, in continuation to green threads experiment, a runtime handled tasks experiment[1] which moves async state machine handling from IL emitted by Roslyn to special-cased methods and then handling purely in runtime code has been a massive success and is now being worked on to be integrated in one of the future version of .NET (hopefully 10?)

[0] https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/issues/11192

[1] https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/blob/feature/async2-exp...

Unlike these folks from dotnet, which tested directly on ASP for real workload

  https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398?darkschemeovr=1

[1] https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

The only way to avoid it is to not build on top of Java or not adding any features on top of Java.

> To give another example with C#, there has been a lot of recent discussion about finding potential alternatives to their async-await concurrency model. They cite the level of effort it takes to maintain the async await style code and the costs that come from this.

I had a very different take-away. They did PoC with virtual threads and decided it's not worth the switch now and async-await that they have is good enough.

https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

> Some of the languages it gets compared too aren't even that old yet.

C# is old enough to drink and Scala just had its 20th birthday this week :)

It was tried and the dotnet team decided to drop it: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

Technical details here: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/blob/feature/green-thre...

Just last month .NET ended a green threading experiment, mainly because the overhead it adds to FFI was too high:

https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

Rust had green threads until late 2014, and they were removed because of their impact on performance.

Everyone has done the basic research: green threading is a convenient abstraction that comes with certain performance trade offs. It doesn't work for the kind of profile that Rust is trying to target.