ZLUDA VS Cgml

It now supports AMD GPUs since 3 weeks ago, check the latest commit at the repo:

https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA

The article also mentions exactly this fact.

Looks like nvidia is trying to keep the lynchpin of their entire business model from crumbling underneath them. ZLUDA lets you run unmodified CUDA applications with near-native performance on AMD GPUs.

https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA

With Triton looking to eclipse CUDA entirely, im not sure this prohibition does anything more than placate casual shareholders.

>Dark API functions are reverse-engineered and implemented by ZLUDA on a case-by-case basis once we observe an application making use of it.

https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA/blob/master/ARCHITECTURE.md

> I know AMD have their competition, but their GPU software division keeps tripping over itself.

They are actively stepping on every rake there is. Eg they just stopped supporting the drop-in-cuda project everyone is waiting for, due to there being "no business-case for CUDA on AMD GPUs" [0].

[0] https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA?tab=readme-ov-file#faq

https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA

They still funded it and it was created.

From the same repo, I found this excellent, well-written architecture document: https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA/blob/master/ARCHITECTURE.md

I love the direct, "no bullshit" style of writing.

Some gems:

> Anyone familiar with C++ will instantly understand that compiling it is a complicated affair.

> Additionally CUDA allows, to a large degree, mixing CPU code and GPU code. What does all this complexity mean for ZLUDA? Absolutely nothing

> Since an application can dynamically link to either Driver API or Runtime API, it would seem that ZLUDA needs to provide both. In reality very few applications dynamically link to Runtime API. For the vast majority of applications it's sufficient to provide Driver API for dynamic (runtime) linking.

CUDA is huge and nvidia spent a ton in a lot of "dead end" use cases optimizing it. There have been experiments with CUDA translation layers with decent performance[1]. There are two things that most projects hit:

1. The CUDA API is huge; I'm sure Intel/AMD will focus on what they need to implement pytorch and ignore every other use case ensuring that CUDA always has the leg up in any new frontier

2. Nvidia actually cares about developer experience. The most prominent example is Geohotz with tinygrad - where AMD examples didn't even work or had glaring compiler bugs. You will find nvidia engineer in github issues for CUDA projects. Intel/AMD hasn't made that level of investment and thats important because GPUs tend to be more fickle than CPUs.

[1] https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA

> I don't think you understand just how insanely difficult it is to break into that market.

You're right, I have no clue nor have I ever tried myself.

> Even with apple money or something like that, it's a losing prospect because in the time it'll take you to get up and off the ground (which is FOREVER) your competition will crush you.

This I find hard to believe, do you have a source or reference for that claim? Companies with that amount of cash are hardly going to be crushed by competition be it direct or indirect. Anyway, I'm talking more about the Intels and AMDs of this world.

We have very lacklustre efforts from players I won't name with their Zluda library (https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA) which I got REALLY excited about, until I read the README.txt. Four contributors, last commit early 2021.

Why, oh why, is it this bad?

> Meant no offense

None taken.

> computervison project in c#

Yeah, for CV applications nuget.org is indeed not particularly great. Very few people are using C# for these things, people typically choose something else like Python and OpenCV.

BTW, same applies to ML libraries, most folks are using Python/Torch/CUDA stack. For that hobby project https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/ I had to re-implement the entire tech stack in C#/C++/HLSL.

> If there is a future with this idea, its gotta be just shipping the LLM with game right?

That might be a nice application for this library of mine: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/

That’s an open source Mistral ML model implementation which runs on GPUs (all of them, not just nVidia), takes 4.5GB on disk, uses under 6GB of VRAM, and optimized for interactive single-user use case. Probably fast enough for that application.

You wouldn’t want in-game dialogues with the original model though. Game developers would need to finetune, retrain and/or do something else with these weights and/or my implementation.

If you just want to run Mistral on Windows, you could try my port: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/tree/master/Mistral/Mistral...

The setup is relatively easy: install .NET runtime, download 4.5 GB model file from BitTorrent, unpack a small ZIP file and run the EXE.

Speaking about random sampling during inference, most ML models are doing it rather inefficiently.

Here’s a better way: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/blob/master/Readme.md#rando...

My HLSL is easily portable to CUDA, which has `__syncthreads` and `atomicInc` intrinsics.

I did a few times with Direct3D 11 compute shaders. Here’s an open-source example: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml

Pretty sure Vulkan gonna work equally well, at the very least there’s an open source DXVK project which implements D3D11 on top of Vulkan.

Here’s an example of a custom 4 bits/weight codec for ML weights:

https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/blob/master/Readme.md#bcml1...

llama.cpp does it slightly differently but still, AFAIK their quantized data formats are conceptually similar to my codec.

> the API was high-friction due to the shader language, and the glue between shader and CPU

Direct3D 11 compute shaders share these things with Vulkan, yet D3D11 is relatively easy to use. For example, see that library which implements ML-targeted compute shaders for C# with minimal friction: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml The backend implemented in C++ is rather simple, just binds resources and dispatches these shaders.

I think the main usability issue with Vulkan is API design. Vulkan was only designed with AAA game engines in mind. The developers of these game engines have borderline unlimited budgets, and their requirements are very different from ordinary folks who want to leverage GPU hardware.

Minor update https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/releases/tag/1.1a Can’t edit that comment anymore, too late.