SICL
clog
SICL | clog | |
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26 | 150 | |
1,051 | 1,425 | |
- | - | |
9.9 | 9.6 | |
10 days ago | 4 days ago | |
TeX | Common Lisp | |
GNU General Public License v3.0 or later | GNU General Public License v3.0 or later |
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SICL
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Ask HN: Guide for Implementing Common Lisp
This is a very approachable paper from 1990 on one way to do it with a C kernel bootstrapping to Common Lisp: https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/kcl/paper... Kyoto Common Lisp (KCL) is the ancestor of today's Embeddable Common Lisp (ECL).
SICL is probably the best modern version of CL written in CL from a design standpoint, even if it's not taking over SBCL's role anytime soon: https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL It uses some fancy bootstrapping to have the whole language available early, e.g. their definition of class 'symbol is:
(defclass symbol (t)
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An implementation of Common Lisp targeting Lua
That's pretty much the objective of SICL, which is "intentionally divided into many implementation-independent modules that are written in a totally or near-totally portable way, so as to allow other implementations to incorporate these modules from SICL, rather than having to maintain their own, perhaps implementation-specific versions".
https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
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Strong typing, a hill I'm willing to die on
Gladly!
https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL (which I wrote a decent chunk of the compiler backend of.)
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lisp-in-lisp: an experimental implementation of the lisp interpreter in itself
I applaud your curiosity and initiative to explore. Are you aware of https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL?
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NSA urges orgs to use memory-safe programming languages
I mean this Klein and this SICL. Self and Common Lisp are memory-safe, though the implementations need capabilities to manipulate memory; SICL encapsulates them using first-class global environments.
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Re-targeting (Lisp) compilers
There is significant overlap with SICL and its associated pieces which supply many of the other parts needed to make a Common Lisp. Some of these are Cluster which provides a portable and extensible assembler, Eclector which supplies a portable and extensible reader, Concrete-Syntax-Tree that supports source code tracking during compilation, ctype that implements the Common Lisp type system, and Clostrum that provides first-class environments for e.g. run-time, evaluation, and compilation. The SICL project has as one of its goals the creation of portable infrastructure for implementing Common Lisp, and these pieces are novel building blocks that were created as part of the project.
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Question from a new Lisper
Not really; you can do it with primitive operations e.g. here is the list in the Cleavir compiler and a paper on "magic" in Jikes RVM. SBCL also has a "virtual op"/vop language for code generation, and vops are written to manipulate objects with assembly snippets.
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When a young programmer who has been using C for several years is convinced that C is the best possible programming language and that people who don't prefer it just haven't use it enough, what is the best argument for Lisp vs C, given that they're already convinced in favor of C?
Both work. I basically never have to touch C or even FFI (cl+ssl being the main use of FFI for me), unless I am poking at SBCL guts in my spare time, and that isn't necessary either. I am sure many Haskell hackers are happy with their IO monad too.
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Some questions from a new user.
It's used in operating systems, compilers and CLIs.
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Open source compilers that use three address code as IR?
The Cleavir Common Lisp compiler uses three-address instructions in a control-flow graph, though it is intended more for production use than educational use.
clog
- Embracing Common Lisp in the Modern World
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Use any web browser as GUI, with Zig in the back end and HTML5 in the front end
Reminds me of the approach of CLOG (Common Lisp Omnificent Gui[1]) and its ancestor GNOGA (The GNU Omnificent GUI for Ada[2]).
They also integrate basic components and even graphical UI editor (at least for CLOG), so you can essentially develop the whole thing from inside CL or Ada
[1] https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog
[2] https://github.com/alire-project/gnoga
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Common Lisp: An Interactive Approach (1992) [pdf]
For me David Botton [0] with his work including code, support and videos is doing very nice work in this direction.
I use SBCL for everything but work because I cannot get; we are getting there, but like you say, it’s such a nice experience working interactively building fast that it is magic and it’s painful returning to my daily work of Python and typescript/react. It feels like a waste of time/life, really.
[0] https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog
- CLOG - The Common Lisp Omnificent GUI
- Clog The Common Lisp Omnificent GUI
- Clog – The Common Lisp Omnificent GUI
- Tkinter Designer: Quickly Turn Figma Design to Python Tkinter GUI
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Want to learn lisp?
I was following along on the Windows page and didn't check back on the main README to see if any of the other instructions would help.
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All Web frontend lisp projects
It the answer is "latter", then you could look at Common Lisp and Reblocks (https://40ants.com/reblocks/) or CLOG (https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog).
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How to Understand and Use Common Lisp
I haven't used Clojure professionally in 10 years so with a grain of salt here are my thoughts as only one other person answered...
CL over Clojure: it's the OG Lisp that the creator of Clojure used and wanted to continue using but faced too much resistance from management afraid of anything not-Java/not-Oracle, or not-CLR/not-Microsoft, etc. Clojure shipped originally as "just another jar" so devs could "sneak" it in. If you don't have such a management restriction, why Clojure? If you want to integrate CL with the JVM, you can use the ABCL implementation, there's also something from one of the proprietary Lisps. Some useful CL features that are nice in this domain: conditions and restarts mentioned in a sibling comment (very nice to help interactively develop/debug e.g. a selenium webdriver test), ability to easily compile an exe (perhaps useful for microservices, or just to keep your deployment environment clean and not having to care about Lisp), and ability to easily ship with an open local socket allowing you to SSH in (or SSH port forward) and debug/fix/poke around in production (JVM of course lets you attach debuggers to a running process, even certain billion+ dollar companies will have supervised/limited prod debugging sessions for various hairy cases, but it's not as interactive). You should never hear CL advocates claim you can't scale to large teams/groups of engineers or large multi-million-lines sized projects, though you might oddly hear Clojure advocates sometimes claim you can't (and shouldn't) scale to such large projects -- large groups of engineers are a non-issue for them as well though, the challenge is in hiring, not in the language somehow making it impossible to modularize and keep people from stepping on each other.
Clojure over CL: its integration with the JVM is nicer than ABCL's, so if you do actually want a lot of the great world of Java stuff, it's easier to get at. Database integration libraries are better. Access to libs (Clojure or Java) is via Maven, so it's a larger ecosystem with more self-integrating components (especially around monitoring/metrics) than what's available for Lisp via Quicklisp. Clojure is very opinionated, much of it quite tasteful, and that gives the whole ecosystem a certain consistency. (You can have immutable data structures in CL, you can if you want use [] for literal vectors and make them syntactically important e.g. in let bindings, but not everyone will be on board.) Even though its popularity seems to have stopped growing, at least at the same rate as e.g. Go which it was keeping pace with for a while, it's still popular enough with a bigger community; as a proxy measure there are multiple conferences around the world and good talks at adjacent conferences, whereas Lisp mostly just has one conference in Europe per year and only occasional branching outside of that.
If you're doing a client-side-heavy webapp, ClojureScript is still amazing, CL's answers there aren't very compelling with the exception of CLOG (https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog) which takes an entirely different direction than the usual idea of translating/running Lisp on top of JavaScript and its popular frameworks.
What are some alternatives?
HVM - A massively parallel, optimal functional runtime in Rust
kandria - A post-apocalyptic actionRPG. Now on Steam!
clasp - clasp Common Lisp environment
stumpwm - The Stump Window Manager
whirlisp - A whirlwind Lisp adventure
awesome-cl - A curated list of awesome Common Lisp frameworks, libraries and other shiny stuff.
one-more-re-nightmare - A fast regular expression compiler in Common Lisp
electron-sbcl-sqlite - A simple boilerplate that builds an Electron app with SBCL and SQLite3 embedded
gophernotes - The Go kernel for Jupyter notebooks and nteract.
weblocks - This fork was created to experiment with some refactorings. They are collected in branch "reblocks".
river-runner - Uses USGS/MERIT Basin data to visualize the path of a rain droplet to its endpoint.
kons-9 - Common Lisp 3D Graphics Project