clog
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clog | awesome-cl | |
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150 | 63 | |
1,382 | 2,428 | |
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9.2 | 8.4 | |
4 days ago | about 1 month ago | |
Common Lisp | Makefile | |
GNU General Public License v3.0 or later | GNU General Public License v3.0 or later |
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clog
- Embracing Common Lisp in the Modern World
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Use any web browser as GUI, with Zig in the back end and HTML5 in the front end
Reminds me of the approach of CLOG (Common Lisp Omnificent Gui[1]) and its ancestor GNOGA (The GNU Omnificent GUI for Ada[2]).
They also integrate basic components and even graphical UI editor (at least for CLOG), so you can essentially develop the whole thing from inside CL or Ada
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Common Lisp: An Interactive Approach (1992) [pdf]
For me David Botton [0] with his work including code, support and videos is doing very nice work in this direction.
I use SBCL for everything but work because I cannot get; we are getting there, but like you say, it’s such a nice experience working interactively building fast that it is magic and it’s painful returning to my daily work of Python and typescript/react. It feels like a waste of time/life, really.
- Clog – The Common Lisp Omnificent GUI
- Tkinter Designer: Quickly Turn Figma Design to Python Tkinter GUI
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Want to learn lisp?
If you already have some programming experience you can do a quick intro to Common Lisp and CLOG too - https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog/blob/main/LEARN.md
I was following along on the Windows page and didn't check back on the main README to see if any of the other instructions would help.
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All Web frontend lisp projects
CLOG is an interesting twist of a frontend and backend in one. https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog
It the answer is "latter", then you could look at Common Lisp and Reblocks (https://40ants.com/reblocks/) or CLOG (https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog).
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How to Understand and Use Common Lisp
I haven't used Clojure professionally in 10 years so with a grain of salt here are my thoughts as only one other person answered...
CL over Clojure: it's the OG Lisp that the creator of Clojure used and wanted to continue using but faced too much resistance from management afraid of anything not-Java/not-Oracle, or not-CLR/not-Microsoft, etc. Clojure shipped originally as "just another jar" so devs could "sneak" it in. If you don't have such a management restriction, why Clojure? If you want to integrate CL with the JVM, you can use the ABCL implementation, there's also something from one of the proprietary Lisps. Some useful CL features that are nice in this domain: conditions and restarts mentioned in a sibling comment (very nice to help interactively develop/debug e.g. a selenium webdriver test), ability to easily compile an exe (perhaps useful for microservices, or just to keep your deployment environment clean and not having to care about Lisp), and ability to easily ship with an open local socket allowing you to SSH in (or SSH port forward) and debug/fix/poke around in production (JVM of course lets you attach debuggers to a running process, even certain billion+ dollar companies will have supervised/limited prod debugging sessions for various hairy cases, but it's not as interactive). You should never hear CL advocates claim you can't scale to large teams/groups of engineers or large multi-million-lines sized projects, though you might oddly hear Clojure advocates sometimes claim you can't (and shouldn't) scale to such large projects -- large groups of engineers are a non-issue for them as well though, the challenge is in hiring, not in the language somehow making it impossible to modularize and keep people from stepping on each other.
Clojure over CL: its integration with the JVM is nicer than ABCL's, so if you do actually want a lot of the great world of Java stuff, it's easier to get at. Database integration libraries are better. Access to libs (Clojure or Java) is via Maven, so it's a larger ecosystem with more self-integrating components (especially around monitoring/metrics) than what's available for Lisp via Quicklisp. Clojure is very opinionated, much of it quite tasteful, and that gives the whole ecosystem a certain consistency. (You can have immutable data structures in CL, you can if you want use [] for literal vectors and make them syntactically important e.g. in let bindings, but not everyone will be on board.) Even though its popularity seems to have stopped growing, at least at the same rate as e.g. Go which it was keeping pace with for a while, it's still popular enough with a bigger community; as a proxy measure there are multiple conferences around the world and good talks at adjacent conferences, whereas Lisp mostly just has one conference in Europe per year and only occasional branching outside of that.
If you're doing a client-side-heavy webapp, ClojureScript is still amazing, CL's answers there aren't very compelling with the exception of CLOG (https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog) which takes an entirely different direction than the usual idea of translating/running Lisp on top of JavaScript and its popular frameworks.
awesome-cl
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KamilaLisp – A functional, flexible and concise Lisp
Hello, a single counter-example I hope https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht...
(see more from https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl?tab=readme-ov-fil...
https://cl-community-spec.github.io/pages/index.html
and some more)
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Why Is Common Lisp Not the Most Popular Programming Language?
Everyone, if you don't have a clue on how's Common Lisp going these days, I suggest:
https://lisp-journey.gitlab.io/blog/these-years-in-common-li... (https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/107oejk/these_years_i...)
A curated list of libraries: https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl
Some companies, the ones we hear about: https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies/
and oh, some more editors besides Emacs or Vim: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht... (Atom/Pulsar support is good, VSCode support less so, Jetbrains one getting good, Lem is a modern Emacsy built in CL, Jupyter notebooks, cl-repl for a terminal REPL, etc)
For package management, we have:
- Quicklisp, which is pretty handy, since we can install and use a library from the Lisp REPL, without restarting anything.
- Qlot, that installs dependencies locally, and allows to pin them (yeah you can't do that with QL, although cloning a lib and using it is easy).
- ocicl, a new package manager from the world of containers
- CLPM, another new one
- Roswell, if you really really want to install libraries from the terminal (although Qlot does it) or to install implementations, or software.
I bet the ecosystem is bigger than many think: https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl and anyone would be amazed by its stability.
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Common Lisp: An Interactive Approach (1992) [pdf]
check out the editor section, there's more than Emacs these days: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht...
- https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl for libraries
- https://www.classcentral.com/report/best-lisp-courses/#ancho...
- a recent overview of the ecosystem: https://lisp-journey.gitlab.io/blog/these-years-in-common-li... (shameless plug, on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34321090)
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Spinneret: A modern Common Lisp HTML generator
More HTML generators for CL: https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl#html-generators-a... there are lispy ones (Spinneret), Django-like ones (Djula, I like it, easy to use and extend), HTML-based allowing for inline Lisp code (Ten), JSX-like ones (lsx, markup), and more.
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Common Lisp JSON parser?
https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl is usually a good place to find recommendations. Jzon is pretty good.
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All of Mark Watson's Lisp Books
> obstacles add up
I actually agree. It wasn't smooth for me to ship my first CL app. It's all better now (more tools, more documentation, more blog posts from several people, more SO questions and answers!).
> performant
SBCL is in the same ballpack of C, Rust or Java in many benchmarks.
In this article series, the author writes the same program in CL, Rust and Java. In fact, he copy-pastes a PG snippet from 30 years ago. This snippet beats Rust and Java in LOC and speed. But, yeah, he wasn't writing super efficient Rust code, so after many discussions, pull requests and sweating, the Rust code became the most performant. https://renato.athaydes.com/posts/revisiting-prechelt-paper-... It didn't take work to make the CL code performant, more so for the Rust one ;)
a benchmark after sb-simd vectorization: https://preview.redd.it/vn5juu36v2681.png?width=715&format=p... (https://www.reddit.com/r/Common_Lisp/comments/riedio/quite_a...)
> good tools for networking, for writing concurrent or asynchronous code, for graphics,
I refer the reader to https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl but yes, CL won't have the best libraries in some scenarii (GUI? Tk libs are good, we have Gtk4, a Qt5 library used in production© by a big player but difficult to install etc)
> it doesn't give you a good package manager or means of distributing code
Quicklisp is neat, with limitations, that can be addressed with Qlot, ql-https, or CLPM or the newest ocicl.
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How to Understand and Use Common Lisp
It's a good book!
Modern companions would be:
- the Cookbook: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/ (check out the editors section: Atom/Pulsar, VSCode, Sublime, Jetbrains, Lem...)
- https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl to find libraries
Also:
- https://stevelosh.com/blog/2018/08/a-road-to-common-lisp/
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34321090 2022 in review
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Why Lisp?
> static strong typing
Alright, here is it: https://github.com/coalton-lang/coalton/
> small efficient native binaries
The numbers are: with SBCL's core-compression, a web app with dozens on dependencies will weight ±30 to 40MB. This includes the compiler, the debugger, etc. Without core compression, we reach ±150MB.
> The actor runtime?
the actor library: https://github.com/mdbergmann/cl-gserver
> couldn't find a way to make money with it. I suspect many other programmers are in my boat.
Alright. Some do, that's life. Yes, some companies go with CL even in 2023 (https://lisp-journey.gitlab.io/blog/lisp-interview-kina/, they released https://github.com/KinaKnowledge/juno-lang lately; Feetr (finance): https://twitter.com/feetr_io/status/1587182923911991303)
https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies/
> Give us an HTTP (1.x & 2.0) and WebSockets libraries
How so? We have those libraries. HTTP/2: https://github.com/zellerin/http2/
What are some alternatives?
awesome-lisp-companies - Awesome Lisp Companies
kandria - A post-apocalyptic actionRPG. Now on Steam!
cl-str - Modern, simple and consistent Common Lisp string manipulation library.
coalton - Coalton is an efficient, statically typed functional programming language that supercharges Common Lisp.
stumpwm - The Stump Window Manager
Petalisp - Elegant High Performance Computing
electron-sbcl-sqlite - A simple boilerplate that builds an Electron app with SBCL and SQLite3 embedded
alive-lsp - Language Server Protocol implementation for use with the Alive extension
ocaml - The core OCaml system: compilers, runtime system, base libraries
weblocks - This fork was created to experiment with some refactorings. They are collected in branch "reblocks".
paip-lisp - Lisp code for the textbook "Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming"
kons-9 - Common Lisp 3D Graphics Project