Idris2 VS Fable: F# |> BABEL

Have you looked into Idris2 at all. While looking into these theorum provers, it always felt like they had an impedance mismatch with normal programming.

Idris2 portends to a general purpose language that also has a more advanced type system for the theorum proving.

https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris2

The original paper also does plain STLC first in section 2, and then adds dependent types in section 3. (And finally it adds the naturals in section 4.)

In the Idris2 github repository, Guillaume Allais goes a step further and shows a well-named version. There the types of terms and values are indexed by the list of names in the environment and the compiler checks that the manipulation of deBruin levels and indices is correct:

https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris2/blob/main/libs/papers/L...

Most of the proof assistants out there: Lean, Coq, Dafny, Isabelle, F*, Idris 2, and Agda. And the main concepts are dependent types, Homotopy Type Theory AKA HoTT, and Category Theory. Warning: HoTT and Category Theory are really dense, you're going to really need to research them.

Here's the full tab list: - https://tjpalmer.github.io/languish/ - https://blog.python.org/2022/10/python-3110-is-now-available.html - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/python-311-faster-cpython-team/ - https://github.com/tc39/proposals/blob/main/finished-proposals.md - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/typescript/ten-years-of-typescript/ - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/typescript/announcing-typescript-4-6/#cfa-destructured-discriminated-unions - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/typescript/announcing-typescript-4-9/#the-satisfies-operator - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/typescript/announcing-typescript-4-7/#go-to-source-definition - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/typescript/announcing-typescript-4-8/#build-watch-incremental-improvements - https://openjdk.org/projects/jdk/18/ - https://openjdk.org/projects/jdk/19/ - https://blog.jetbrains.com/clion/2022/07/july-2022-iso-cpp/ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B23 - https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/23 - https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2128r6.pdf - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/announcing-dotnet-7/ - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/welcome-to-csharp-11/ - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/announcing-fsharp-7/ - https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/native-aot/ - https://go.dev/blog/go1.19 - https://go.dev/blog/go1.18 - https://thephd.dev/c23-is-coming-here-is-what-is-on-the-menu - https://thephd.dev/c23-is-coming-here-is-what-is-on-the-menu#n3017---embed - https://thephd.dev/c23-is-coming-here-is-what-is-on-the-menu#n3006--n3007---type-inference-for-object-definitions - https://www.php.net/archive/2022.php#2022-12-08-1 - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/dnf_types - https://blog.rust-lang.org/ - https://blog.rust-lang.org/2022/01/13/Rust-1.58.0.html#captured-identifiers-in-format-strings - https://blog.rust-lang.org/2022/02/24/Rust-1.59.0.html#inline-assembly - https://blog.rust-lang.org/2022/05/19/Rust-1.61.0.html#more-capabilities-for-const-fn - https://blog.rust-lang.org/2022/08/11/Rust-1.63.0.html#scoped-threads - https://blog.rust-lang.org/2022/11/03/Rust-1.65.0.html#generic-associated-types-gats - https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2022/06/kotlin-1-7-0-released/ - https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-announce/2022/000683.html - https://dart.dev/guides/whats-new - https://medium.com/dartlang/dart-2-18-f4b3101f146c - https://medium.com/dartlang/the-road-to-dart-3-afdd580fbefa - https://www.swift.org/blog/swift-5.6-released/ - https://www.swift.org/blog/swift-5.7-released/ - https://www.swift.org/blog/swift-language-updates-from-wwdc22/ - https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2022/12/25/ruby-3-2-0-released/ - https://www.lua.org/news.html - https://www.scala-lang.org/blog/2022/09/05/scala-3.2.0-released.html - https://tjpalmer.github.io/languish/#y=mean&weights=issues%3D1%26pulls%3D0%26stars%3D1%26soQuestions%3D1&names=solidity%2Chaskell%2Cjulia%2Celixir%2Cclojure%2Cperl%2Cgroovy%2Cocaml%2Cgdscript%2Ccmake%2Cnix%2Cvisual+basic+.net - https://blog.soliditylang.org/ - https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/9.4.1/docs/users_guide/9.4.1-notes.html - https://julialang.org/blog/2022/08/julia-1.8-highlights/ - https://discourse.julialang.org/t/julia-v1-9-0-beta2-is-fast/92290 - https://elixir-lang.org/blog/2022/09/01/elixir-v1-14-0-released/ - https://elixir-lang.org/blog/2022/10/05/my-future-with-elixir-set-theoretic-types/ - https://clojure.org/news/2022/03/22/clojure-1-11-0 - https://godotengine.org/en/news/default/1 - https://ocaml.org/news/ocaml-5.0 - https://tjpalmer.github.io/languish/#y=mean&weights=issues%3D1%26pulls%3D0%26stars%3D1%26soQuestions%3D1&names=gdscript%2Czig%2Cpascal%2Cfortran%2Cnim%2Cf%23%2Ccommon+lisp%2Cwebassembly%2Ccrystal%2Ccython%2Cvala%2Cerlang%2Chaxe%2Cv%2Cd - https://ziglang.org/download/0.10.0/release-notes.html - https://ziglang.org/news/goodbye-cpp/ - https://nim-lang.org/blog.html - https://nim-lang.org/blog/2022/12/21/version-20-rc.html - https://www.erlang.org/news/157 - https://github.com/WebAssembly/proposals/commits/main - https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal/releases - https://dlang.org/changelog/2.099.0.html - https://dlang.org/changelog/2.100.0.html - https://dlang.org/changelog/2.101.0.html - https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/releases - https://gleam.run/news/ - https://gleam.run/news/gleam-v0.22-released/ - https://gleam.run/news/gleam-v0.24-released/ - https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris2/blob/102d7ebc18a9e881021ed4b05186cccda5274cbe/CHANGELOG.md - https://github.com/diku-dk/futhark/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md#02111 - https://grain-lang.org/blog/2022/06/06/new-release-grain-v0.5-durum/ - https://rescript-lang.org/blog/release-10-0-0 - https://www.roc-lang.org/ - https://simon.peytonjones.org/assets/pdfs/haskell-exchange-22.pdf - https://vale.dev/ - https://www.val-lang.dev/

Idris2 has a great syntax for this, see e.g. node018:

I asked because it just baffles me any time I see a dependently typed language using unary numbers. I think to myself, "are these people even educated? Do they know about number systems?" I mean, cavemen were the last group using unary number system as their mainstay, and that was during the Paleolithic. Then they have issues open like this when they discuss optimizing those damn unaries. But this shouldn't even have been a problem for anyone even remotely related to programming! It's giving a terrible impression of dependently-typed languages. Getting rid of those should be the first step of popularizing them.

addOne : Int -> EitherT String IO Int addOne x = pure $ x + 1 add : Int -> Int -> EitherT String IO Int add x y = pure $ x + y main : IO () main = do exportFn `{add} the (IO ()) $ exportFn `{addOne} -- `the (IO ())` is needed due to issue https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris2/issues/2851

The idea of world state is an attraction of the state that side effects change. I got the idea from Idris internals: https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris2/blob/main/libs/prelude/PrimIO.idr

This conversation could be referring to https://fable.io/

Other than that, the question is indeed strange and I agree with your statements.

NOTE: For larger codebases with more history it is likely that the Program.fs file will have a lot of orchestration and logic as well. given that it is often where everything clashes and starts, for example the Fable Entrypoint is in Entry.fs and it contains a lot of code. The best you can do always is to start at the bottom of the file and work your way up. Remember: Everything at the bottom uses what has already been defined at the top so there are no circular dependencies or random functions/types at the bottom that can trip you off, everything comes from the top!

I am a big fan of going with web components + plain (build-less) javascript whenever possible, so it is not surprising that I often favor things like the Fable Compiler, where I can target my F# code directly to javascript and be as close to the native JS experience as possible, both for interop concerns and for ecosystem integration.

Fable compiler - https://fable.io/

The F# community is very friendly (these sub-communities as well), and they have plenty of good issues/opportunities to contribute OSS work to across any skill level.

Phosphor isn't hiring right now, but we expect to begin a search for FE/interface engineers over the next few month. Email [email protected] for anyone interested.

Naturally I’d recommend using a better language such as ReScript or Elm or PureScript or F#‘s Fable + Elmish, but “React” is the king right now and people perceive TypeScript as “less risky” for jobs/hiring, so here we are.

Stuff like this: https://github.com/fable-compiler/Fable/issues/1822

It just seems like an incredibly ambitious project that appears to have very little equal but is mainly worked on by a handful of people but no corporate backing. I get the feeling that if you want to use it, you'll either be the only one doing what you're doing or among just a few people. I already use F# and feel this way about the core language itself.

F# is also part of the OCaml family, has a great to-JS transpiler (https://fable.io/) and F# code can also be used in .NET projects.

I have heard many good things about https://fable.io/ Fable converts F# code to JavaScript. There are currently 407 packages available for interacting with existing JavaScript packages and frameworks.