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Joe: Yeah. And so several years ago, Chef came up with the idea of the Omnibus, so they have where it's a self-contained...it contains the Ruby, and everything is embedded within it. So it's just an RPM; there are no other dependencies. That was such a breath of fresh air because you weren't having to manage this. And so it's like, we're updating Chef, but then we also have to update Ruby and conjunctions of doing that. It just became a thing to update.
Joe: And so the mess propagates on. And a lot of times, I'll see these examples where people will say, "Oh, you got to set up this, and you got to set up this. And I've got to set up a ZooKeeper cluster to manage my other ZooKeeper clusters," and things like that. And so people read this, and then they run away from these things because there's all this stuff that they think they have to do. So they're starting off, instead of starting off small, they think they have to do a lot so that it's a higher barrier to entry for people.
I remember I tried to build a scraper to scrape a Magic: The Gathering website. I was trying to get prices out of this thing. And it was almost like I was competing with the development team because they would introduce some new piece of JavaScript that would break my scraper. I was probably hammering their site. I bet they saw my traffic spiking on their charts. And they're like, "What can we do to prevent this nonsense?" But that really motivated me to learn a lot more because I was just solving the little problems as I went. You may think that you need Kubernetes to solve this. How about you start with a Bash script? See if you start with a Bash script; what’s hard about that? Why that's a flawed approach, and then you go from there. Try something else; try Terraform. Try something else, building on those bridges.
Jonan: Nice. This complexity issue that we touched on a little bit, I love where software is going. The world is getting easier and more difficult at the same time, though. I think technologies like Chef...so we were talking about Chef a little bit. We had Chef and Puppet, and then Ansible came onto the scene. And now we're using Kubernetes and other...I mean, they're a little bit different tools, a lot of the HashiCorp. What is that HashiCorp one? Terraform users. It's easier, and also, there's a lot more to learn. Kubernetes is easily a multi-year education if you want to know it deeply. And do you think that we're making progress in spite of all that? It doesn't feel like progress some days when I'm banging my head against some YAML file.
Jonan: Nice. This complexity issue that we touched on a little bit, I love where software is going. The world is getting easier and more difficult at the same time, though. I think technologies like Chef...so we were talking about Chef a little bit. We had Chef and Puppet, and then Ansible came onto the scene. And now we're using Kubernetes and other...I mean, they're a little bit different tools, a lot of the HashiCorp. What is that HashiCorp one? Terraform users. It's easier, and also, there's a lot more to learn. Kubernetes is easily a multi-year education if you want to know it deeply. And do you think that we're making progress in spite of all that? It doesn't feel like progress some days when I'm banging my head against some YAML file.
I remember I tried to build a scraper to scrape a Magic: The Gathering website. I was trying to get prices out of this thing. And it was almost like I was competing with the development team because they would introduce some new piece of JavaScript that would break my scraper. I was probably hammering their site. I bet they saw my traffic spiking on their charts. And they're like, "What can we do to prevent this nonsense?" But that really motivated me to learn a lot more because I was just solving the little problems as I went. You may think that you need Kubernetes to solve this. How about you start with a Bash script? See if you start with a Bash script; what’s hard about that? Why that's a flawed approach, and then you go from there. Try something else; try Terraform. Try something else, building on those bridges.
Jonan: I feel judged here, Joe; I’ve got to admit because I'm looking over here at another monitor that has K3OS on it on a little cluster of Raspberry Pis that I'm building. You're telling me I don't need to use Kubernetes to run my four Raspberry Pis?
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