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I love seeing projects like this! I have one too, but it completely throws away compatibility and is very simplistic. I opted for a lisp-like language instead of a lua-like language (https://github.com/sid-code/nmoo but don't look at the code, it's embarrassing).
I have some questions:
- Does each verb call create a whole new world state that it mutates, and later commits to the database? That's the impression I get from reading the code. Does this come with a lot of overhead?
I've done the "whole new thing" before, too. 20ish years ago, tho I only have a few fragments of what I worked on back then: https://github.com/rdaum/mica being one of them I found on an old drive. Not complete.
But sticking with compatibility has allowed me to enforce development discipline, basically. And then I'll move it onwards from there.
Re: world state / transactions -- yeah, basically all I/O and mutations happen in a transactional context, and then at commit time conflicts are resolved; if they're not resolve-able, the transaction is retried in a new state. As for overhead, yes potentially maybe a lot, but it's also a solvable problem; this is how an MVCC SQL database (like, even Postgres) works. TLDR it's likely inefficient now, but I believe I can make it efficient. And I think it's the best to solve the shared world state problem and still meet user's expectations of consistency.
Re: the MOO client, it's `rmoo.el`: https://github.com/lisdude/rmoo -- it's been around for a long time (25, 30 years?) and it and/or MOO.el (another emacs one) are how/why I learned emacs in the first place. I had to patch my local copy to make it work with emacs 29.1.
I've done the "whole new thing" before, too. 20ish years ago, tho I only have a few fragments of what I worked on back then: https://github.com/rdaum/mica being one of them I found on an old drive. Not complete.
But sticking with compatibility has allowed me to enforce development discipline, basically. And then I'll move it onwards from there.
Re: world state / transactions -- yeah, basically all I/O and mutations happen in a transactional context, and then at commit time conflicts are resolved; if they're not resolve-able, the transaction is retried in a new state. As for overhead, yes potentially maybe a lot, but it's also a solvable problem; this is how an MVCC SQL database (like, even Postgres) works. TLDR it's likely inefficient now, but I believe I can make it efficient. And I think it's the best to solve the shared world state problem and still meet user's expectations of consistency.
Re: the MOO client, it's `rmoo.el`: https://github.com/lisdude/rmoo -- it's been around for a long time (25, 30 years?) and it and/or MOO.el (another emacs one) are how/why I learned emacs in the first place. I had to patch my local copy to make it work with emacs 29.1.
Good luck. As someone who used to work on a lambda-derived MUD it's great to see a little life left in that community. The original server was horribly outdated even 20 years ago.
I also found this project randomly on github at one point, not sure how far along it got to being usable: https://github.com/verement/etamoo
> State has to be owned by a process - who owns the state of the world? ... Keep in mind, when data is passed "between" processes it is deep copied.
The Erlang runtime has other stateful things besides processes, and manipulating data within these and/or getting a handle on data in these places doesn't necessarily involve copying.
• ETS tables, which hold state privately to themselves (with copying in/out) in a similar way to how processes do. If you manipulate data inside ETS tables by "sending compute to data" (think Redis INCR) rather than by "sending data to compute", then no copying happens.
• "Globals" in the form of data compiled into read-only versioned modules loaded into the modules table and available to be referenced from any/all active processes, only copied if the module gets unloaded before the process dies. (Originally this was just a design pattern — https://github.com/discord/fastglobal — but it eventually became its own runtime feature in Erlang 22, https://www.erlang.org/doc/man/persistent_term).
• Large binaries (anything over 64 bytes) aren't allocated in an actor's memory arena, but instead are allocated in a special global-per-node binaries heap, and then ref-counted, where each actor-process holds one reference to each large-binary it's using, and then each read-only slice of that binary, in turn holds a reference to the per-actor reference handle for the binary. One clever technique for sharing a large "database" of data between many actors, is to store the data encoded in a large binary in an encoding that is efficient to partwise-decode; and have the "lookup" operation just parse+decode the appropriate data out of the binary. (This is how erlang:module_info/2 used to work — the global modules-table itself holding a set of references to the loaded modules' binaries, which module_info would then parse metadata out of on demand.)
https://web.archive.org/web/20201203080354/http://www.vmoo.c...
Looks like the VMoo website is still there but is having... issues. But this is the last release. If you have a high DPI display you may find it slightly lacking, even with Windows compatibility settings applied. Which is a shame because VMoo was always the best client.
Most GUI-users use Mudlet (https://www.mudlet.org/) these days. Unfortunately, as far as I know, it lacks proper local editing support. If you're feeling adventurous you can work around that with something like MUDMixer (https://github.com/tms88/mudmixer) to proxy local editing.
yup, and someone's looking after it, and i'm submitting fixes and new features to it in 2023.
https://github.com/ingwarsw/tinyfugue
-adrian / erikarn