research VS dark

In this insightful article, Elad Ben-Israel, the mind behind the CDK, shares his love for the cloud, but also his frustrations with the complexity of building cloud applications. The challenges he identifies include:1. Focus on non-functional mechanics: The need to understand and manage cloud platform mechanics instead of focusing on building valuable features for users.2. Lack of independence: Developers often need to rely on others to handle parts of the deployment process or to resolve issues, interrupting their work flow.3. Delayed feedback: The current iteration cycle in cloud development can take minutes or even longer, significantly slowing down the development process and making it harder for developers to stay in their flow state.## It's not just a rantElad is not just ranting about cloud development. He proposes a solution in the form of a programming language for the cloud. This language would treat the entire cloud as its computer. The language compiler will be able to see the complete cloud application, unbound by the limits of individual machines. Such a compiler would be able to handle a significant portion of the application's non-functional aspects, enabling developers to operate at a more abstract level, thus reducing complexity and promoting autonomy. Moreover, it could expedite iteration cycles by allowing to compile applications to quick local simulators during the development process. ## The Winglang ProjectElad reveals that he's in the process of developing such an open-source, “cloud-oriented” language, dubbed Winglang. Wing aims to improve the developer experience of cloud applications by enabling developers to build distributed systems that leverage cloud services as first-class citizens. This is achieved by integrating infrastructure and application code in a secure, unified programming model. Wing programs can be executed locally via a fully-functional simulator or deployed to any cloud provider.## My Interest in WinglangI, together with a group of dedicated contributors, joined forces with Elad to develop Winglang.While still in Alpha and not yet ready for production use, it's already possible to build some real applications.Check out https://github.com/winglang/wing for more details.

## My Interest in Winglang I, together with a group of dedicated contributors, joined forces with Elad to develop Winglang. While still in Alpha and not yet ready for production use, it's already possible to build some [real applications](https://github.com/winglang/research/tree/main/dogfooding).

We have been working on Wing for almost a year now, and I am excited to invite you to check it out and let me know what you think. While still in Alpha and not yet ready for production use, it's already possible to build some real applications with it.

Yes. Darklang was originally in OCaml using js_of_ocaml, and we ported it to F# using Blazor (https://github.com/darklang/dark/tree/main/backend/src/Wasm). It works.

We found that in dotnet 6, the code was much slower, with long startup times and a much bigger download, than in js_of_ocaml. It also had a lot of issues in running in a Webworker, which wasn't the case for js_of_ocaml.

In dotnet 7, the webworker issues are better and AOT is easier, so startup is faster. Download sizes are still bad, and it's still slower than js_of_ocaml.

However, dotnet allows almost any code to run in WASM, which js_of_ocaml had large limitations. This meant a decent chunk of functionality had to be worked around to make separate js vs native targets, which also was a massive pain and took a long time. Dune's virtual targets wasn't ready at the time - I think we were one of the test cases for it.

Why should I use this instead of https://darklang.com/

First it was probably Dark. They made a lot of noise some years ago, but then I never heard of them again (looking at their current website, looks like they moved on to AI now, obviously).

Reminds me of Darklang. Personally, I don't think vendoring cloud services into a language is going to be beneficial. I'm curious how the language deals with vendor updates. Do I have to upgrade the language then? If so, I see a lot conflicts coming from this. Then it comes down to Javascript or HCL, the HCL bit makes me think that the below statement is not as truthy as it is on the surface:

We still don't have all that many users (~100 active), so I'm not sure you'll find an answer here. But we collect that sort of feedback publicly, which might answer your question: https://github.com/darklang/dark/discussions/categories/feed...

I wish I could remember what took me to YCombinator's website on the 10th of October, 2022. That was when I first heard about Wasp and another language called DarkLang. After I learned about Wasp, I was intrigued and curious to know how it works, which led me to join the discord server the next day.

Some languages that try to integrate an HTTP server and a database:

Ur/Web: http://impredicative.com/ur/

Dark (Darklang): https://darklang.com/

There are others in this space I did not assess like Encore, Shuttle, Modal, and Dark. These were not assessed for the sake of time. If you're interested in IfC, I encourage you to take a look at these others.

Oh, finally! I was waiting to build my serverless CRUD webapp in Dark (OCaml + JavaScript and Fsharp?) until they had support for returning negative numbers on a GET request!