turtledove VS pigin

it's unfortunate that the sour response to this impressive privacy work (https://github.com/WICG/turtledove/blob/main/FLEDGE_k_anonym...) will likely lead to people turning it off, and buried in their is the switch for Private State Tokens (https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/blob/main/README.md)

It'll be interesting to see how this goes. Google and Mozilla+Meta each have competing standards.

https://github.com/WICG/turtledove

https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/privacy-preserving-attri...

To my knowledge, Mozilla's design is the only one where someone other than the browser collects & reports on click activity, and with a fairly trustless anonymizing double blind strategy for those intermediaries.

https://github.com/WICG/turtledove/blob/main/FLEDGE_k_anonym...

you can target an Economist reader a week later on a different website. If FLoC works, you can still do that.

https://github.com/WICG/floc won't really let advertisers do that, this is what https://github.com/WICG/turtledove is for

(Disclosure: I work on ads at Google, speaking only for myself)

The issue is that the replacement that are currently in the works (https://github.com/WICG/floc and https://github.com/WICG/turtledove/blob/main/FLEDGE.md) are extremely complex, will still dramatically impact adtech performance and only improve privacy for a very contrived definition of the concept which incidentally benefits once again big tech vendors...

As to the effectiveness of advertising, removing tracking will have a huge impact. And this affects all players in the value chain, not only adtech providers but also publishers and more importantly advertisers which will see their return on ad spent severely impacted. There is a real of loss "social welfare" (I mean in a game-theoretic sense, but also for real if you believe in capitalism) if tracking is disabled.

Check FLEDGE initiative for this case. The mechanism has not been settled yet, but moves in the needed direction: https://github.com/WICG/turtledove/blob/main/FLEDGE.md#11-joining-interest-groups

I think advertising is positive [1] and the role of ads in funding freely-available sites is very important. My current work is primarily on how browsers can allow more private and secure advertising [2][3][4] which I think most people will agree is valuable even if they are less in favor of advertising in general.

At a lower level, I do this job because I'm paid, which allows me to donate. [5] But I wouldn't do this work if I thought it was harmful; there are lots of different kinds of jobs I could take.

[1] https://www.jefftk.com/p/effect-of-advertising

[2] https://github.com/google/fledge-shim

[3] https://github.com/WICG/turtledove/issues/161

[4] https://github.com/WICG/webpackage/issues/624

[5] https://www.jefftk.com/donations

Why do Google's FLoC, TURTLEDOVE, Dovekey, Criteo's SPARROW, Magnite's PARRROT, NextRoll's TERN and Microsoft's PARAKEET all have similar bird-related names? This feels very cruel considering that in most cultures birds often symbolise freedom.

"First of all, I've never heard of PING."

It is open to the public and there is actually a PING conference call scheduled for tomorrow.

From the PING Charter:

"Participation

Participation in PING is open to the public. Participants who do not represent a W3C Member should join as Invited Experts. Invited Experts in this group are not granted access to Member-only information.

Anyone may subscribe to the group's public mailing list and engage in discussion. Those who intend to contribute to deliverables will be asked to join the group.

Communication

This group conducts its work on the public mailing list public-privacy and in periodic teleconferences, typically 1-2 times per month. Additionally, the group meets face to face at TPAC. PING is experimenting with using a free Slack workspace - interesting discussions from Slack will be called out to the mailing list, and decisions will not be finalized based solely on Slack discussions.

Information about the group (deliverables, participants, face-to-face meetings, teleconferences, etc.) is available from the PING home page.

Decision Policy

As explained in the Process Document (section 3.3), this group will seek to make decisions by consensus. When the Chairs put a question and observe dissent, after due consideration of different opinions, the Chairs should record a decision (possibly after a formal vote) and any objections, and move on."

Here is the PING mailing lists:

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/

The next meeting is tomorrow:

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2021JanM...

W3C's "Privacy Threat Model"

https://w3cping.github.io/privacy-threat-model/

W3C's "Fingerpringinting Guidance":

https://www.w3.org/TR/fingerprinting-guidance/

https://github.com/michaelkleber/pigin

https://github.com/michaelkleber/turtledove