trealla VS wasi-libc

Update: we've got official releases now! https://github.com/trealla-prolog/trealla/releases

Hey, this is mine. Thanks for submitting it. I'll answer some questions.

> Why?

I ported Trealla Prolog to WASM (WASI) and I was looking for something useful to test it against. I found Spin, which can run WASM+CGI, and landed on this. Making this project exposed a number of bugs in my port that have now been fixed, so consumers of more useful projects[1][2] benefit as well. Also, PHP style templates are just fun! There's something valuable to just being able to shove a little bit of code inside some HTML and get it up on the internet.

I started my webdev journey with PHP many many years ago, and it's nice to revisit it from a different perspective. I don't use the real (elephant) PHP anymore, but I've gained a newfound appreciation for how fun its quick & dirty development style is.

I hope this project can serve as an example of how to use Prolog for fun things. It does showcase some of the cooler dynamic aspects of the language, and the PHP parsing code is like 10 lines of DCG.

> Is it a joke?

Yes and no. The name is certainly a joke. I was pondering what 'Prolog on Rails' might be and thought calling it PHP would be funny. This led to the PHP-style templates which were quick to implement and pretty powerful. Despite the humorous presentation, it does actually work.

> Can you use Prolog for web services?

Yes! For example, SWI has a mature HTTP package: https://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/doc_for?object=section(%27p.... It's used to power SWISH, an online Prolog code sharing thing: https://swish.swi-prolog.org/

> Next steps?

I would like to support persistence somehow. I think it'd be really cool if you could use Prolog's dynamic database[3] as a persistent store. Spin has components for Postgres and Redis so it shouldn't be too hard to implement, but I lose the WASI compatibility if I do that... which means I can't use the binary from WAPM, etc.

I would also like to experiment with running Trealla on Cloudflare Workers. I have another project, worker-prolog[4], which uses Tau Prolog (a Prolog written in Javascript) on Workers.

On a somewhat related note, I've also been playing around with Cosmopolitan libc[5]. I got Trealla to compile to an APE executable but there's some issues with the embedded Prolog libraries getting garbled, so I need to improve my GDB skills and figure out what's going on there.

Finally, I'd like to say thanks to Andrew Davison (@infradig on GitHub), the author of Trealla Prolog, for letting me add WASM support to his project and helping me with lots of things. For example, PHP led to Andrew implementing improvements for using DCGs to parse Prolog terms, which is now super fast[6]!

[1]: https://github.com/guregu/trealla-js

[2]: https://github.com/trealla-prolog/go

[3]: https://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?predicate=assertz/1

[4]: https://github.com/guregu/worker-prolog

[5]: https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/

[6]: https://github.com/trealla-prolog/trealla/issues/53

Are you aware trealla can already target WASI as a target? (Just fyi in case you weren't)

https://github.com/trealla-prolog/trealla#webassembly-wasi

Seems they just recreated the git repo to clear out ~1gb of history. https://github.com/trealla-prolog/trealla/issues/1

There is currently no API to query results, so I would be interested in what you are doing. Contact me on github.com/infradig/trealla if you'd prefer.

u/mtriska inadvertently reminded me - I forgot to mention that Trealla Prolog is a small, (soon-to-be) ISO-compliant Prolog interpreter written in C. As such, it should compile to WASM.

Now there are projects like WASI that allows for interfacing with system resources for WASM code this allows for devs to target WASM runtime for their apps sliding the apps to run locally on any OS without any porting required. This could be a game changer in the future like Docker and containers was in the past decade.

So it doesn’t seem like there has been progress on a pseudo-random number generator function for typst, but there are multiple other ways to solve this: 1. Just don’t. Typst has this functional philosophy, there one input always produces the same output. (not an answer to your question tho) 2. Interface with a webassembly module which has a random number generator. So you could e.g. compile c to wasm and statically link a libc version. You would then just have to export the rand() function. (You could use any lang for this, which has a stdlib with a pseudo random number generator) 3. Implement your own. Random number generators are actually not that hard something like an LCG isn’t to complex. (Id provide an example but im on my phone rn)

Actually WASI[0] will be a better alternative, IIRC extism serialize and deserialize the data that you want to pass every time, adding a lot of overhead.

[0] https://wasi.dev

Actually, it was in wasi-libc: https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasi-libc/blob/main/libc-bott...

Proper isolation in C# is only now becoming a thing, with .Net support for WASI, which is essentially a WebAssembly sandbox which can be given extremely granular privileges (such as access to spefic file system directories, or an effective virtual file system). As an upside, the idea is that it should be possible to write the WASI packages in more or less anything.

Wasm Labs dev here :)

In mod_wasm, there are some differences with a pure CGI implementation. When Apache boots, it loads the configuration and initializes the WasmVM. When a new HTTP request arrives, the VM is ready so you don't need to initialize a different process to manage it.

You still need to process the request and pass the data to the Wasm module. This step is done via STDIN through the WebAssembly System Interface (WASI) implementation [0]. The same happens in the opposite direction, as the module returns the data via STDOUT.

So, the CGI pattern is still there, but it doesn't require new processes and all the code runs in a sandbox.

However this is not the only way you can run a Wasm module. In this specific case, we use CGI via WASI. In other cases, you may compile a module to fulfill a specific API, like ProxyWasm [1] to create HTTP filters for proxies like Envoy.

- [0] https://wasi.dev/

- [1] https://github.com/proxy-wasm/spec

Never done that, but I think you need this: https://wasi.dev/

The Python builds from the WebAssembly language runtimes [0] project target the WebAssembly System Interfaces (WASI) [1]. It allows the Python interpreter to interact with resources like the filesystem.

Many server-side Wasm runtimes supports WASI out of the box. For the browser, you need to provide a polyfill to emulate these resources like the one provided by the WASI team [2].

Regarding SQLite, these builds include libsqlite so you should be able to use it :)

- [0] https://github.com/vmware-labs/webassembly-language-runtimes

- [1] https://wasi.dev/

- [2] https://wasi.dev/polyfill/

Effective debugging results in effective programming; itk-wasm makes effective debugging of WebAssembly possible. In this tutorial, adapted from the itk-wasm documentation, we walk through how to debug a C++ data processing pipeline with the mature, native binary debugging tools that are comfortable for developers. This is a fully featured way to ensure the base correctness of a processing pipeline. Next, we will walk through an interactive debugging experience for WASI WebAssembly. With itk-wasm, we can debug the same source code in either context with an interactive debugger. We also have a convenvient way to pass data from our local filesystem into a WebAssembly (Wasm) processing pipeline.

Communication between the WASM module and the rest of the application needs to be done in very simple types (bytes, ints and floats). No complex types are supported yet. This is why most WASM compilers also provide some glue-code to map between complex types like strings or arrays. The Web Assembly System Interface (WAS) is an on-progress standard aimed to solve this last limitation; once it's mature it will allow easy interoperation with almost every environment. WASI is already available in some WSAM compilers and runtimes.