go VS logica

Hey, this is mine. Thanks for submitting it. I'll answer some questions.

> Why?

I ported Trealla Prolog to WASM (WASI) and I was looking for something useful to test it against. I found Spin, which can run WASM+CGI, and landed on this. Making this project exposed a number of bugs in my port that have now been fixed, so consumers of more useful projects[1][2] benefit as well. Also, PHP style templates are just fun! There's something valuable to just being able to shove a little bit of code inside some HTML and get it up on the internet.

I started my webdev journey with PHP many many years ago, and it's nice to revisit it from a different perspective. I don't use the real (elephant) PHP anymore, but I've gained a newfound appreciation for how fun its quick & dirty development style is.

I hope this project can serve as an example of how to use Prolog for fun things. It does showcase some of the cooler dynamic aspects of the language, and the PHP parsing code is like 10 lines of DCG.

> Is it a joke?

Yes and no. The name is certainly a joke. I was pondering what 'Prolog on Rails' might be and thought calling it PHP would be funny. This led to the PHP-style templates which were quick to implement and pretty powerful. Despite the humorous presentation, it does actually work.

> Can you use Prolog for web services?

Yes! For example, SWI has a mature HTTP package: https://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/doc_for?object=section(%27p.... It's used to power SWISH, an online Prolog code sharing thing: https://swish.swi-prolog.org/

> Next steps?

I would like to support persistence somehow. I think it'd be really cool if you could use Prolog's dynamic database[3] as a persistent store. Spin has components for Postgres and Redis so it shouldn't be too hard to implement, but I lose the WASI compatibility if I do that... which means I can't use the binary from WAPM, etc.

I would also like to experiment with running Trealla on Cloudflare Workers. I have another project, worker-prolog[4], which uses Tau Prolog (a Prolog written in Javascript) on Workers.

On a somewhat related note, I've also been playing around with Cosmopolitan libc[5]. I got Trealla to compile to an APE executable but there's some issues with the embedded Prolog libraries getting garbled, so I need to improve my GDB skills and figure out what's going on there.

Finally, I'd like to say thanks to Andrew Davison (@infradig on GitHub), the author of Trealla Prolog, for letting me add WASM support to his project and helping me with lots of things. For example, PHP led to Andrew implementing improvements for using DCGs to parse Prolog terms, which is now super fast[6]!

[1]: https://github.com/guregu/trealla-js

[2]: https://github.com/trealla-prolog/go

[3]: https://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?predicate=assertz/1

[4]: https://github.com/guregu/worker-prolog

[5]: https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/

[6]: https://github.com/trealla-prolog/trealla/issues/53

With trealla-prolog/go on the backend and trealla-js on the frontend, you can share the same validation code.

Other resources for logic programming and Go:

ichiban/prolog - ISO Prolog interpreter in pure Go, getting close to v1: https://github.com/ichiban/prolog

trealla-prolog/go - ISO Prolog interpreter embedded via WASM: https://github.com/trealla-prolog/go

guregu/pengine - library for interfacing with Pengines (SWI-Prolog's RPC protocol): https://github.com/guregu/pengine

biscuit-auth/biscuit-go - Biscuits are a fancy auth token with a little Datalog engine: https://github.com/biscuit-auth/biscuit-go

I'm a big fan of logic programming. We've been seeing a small resurgence of interest in it (for example Yarn using Prolog made some waves) and I have some optimism for its future.

Nice article! I think this is an exciting approach to cross-platform support. I took a similar approach for Trealla Prolog's Go library: https://github.com/trealla-prolog/go

The biggest roadblock at the moment is that Go WASM libraries are not in a very good state, except wazero. My assumption is that wazero will be slower than the cranelift-optimized wasmtime, etc. but I have not seen any benchmarks anywhere.

My impressions of the Go WASM libraries:

wazero: great Go-friendly API, not sure about performance, works on all OS (what the author chose)

wasmer: provides bare-minimum input and output for WASI, fast (it's what I chose for trealla-go). Doesn't work on Windows without significant pain, doesn't static compile the wasmer libraries so distribution is a pain. Seems essentially abandoned as its main contributor left the company.

wasmtime: basically impossible to get input and output in any reasonable way (unable to set stdin or read stdout; it can only inherit the FDs from the host), but might finally get buffers for I/O soon.

wasmedge: haven't investigated this yet, but it seems like it solves many of the problems above, promising

If anyone knows of a benchmark between these, I'd love to see it. I can try to run Trealla's against them if it doesn't take too much work.

It was just made private, I guess. Only the Go WebAssembly project is still public: https://github.com/trealla-prolog/trealla-go

If you're interested in this I would also recommend you check out Logica[0], which is a datalog-like language that is explicitly made to compile to SQL queries.

0: https://logica.dev/

> I guess the intention is to be better than SQL but then I was left with "under which circumstances?"

Excellent question.

Two of the most common use cases for databases are "transactional processing" (manipulating small numbers of rows in real time) and "analytical processing" (querying enormous numbers of rows, typically in a read-only fashion).

SQL is generally fine for transactional workloads.

But analytical queries sometimes involve multi-page queries, with lots of JOINs and CTEs. And these queries are often automatically generated.

And once you start writing actual multi-page "programs" in SQL, you may decide that it's a fairly clunky and miserable programming language. What Datalog typically buys you is a way to cleanly decompose large queries into "subroutines." And it offers a simpler syntax for many kinds of complex JOINs.

Unfortunately, there isn't really a standard dialect of Datalog, or even a particular dialect with mainstream traction. So choosing Datalog is a bit of a tradeoff: does it buy you enough, for your use case, that it's worth being a bit outside the mainstream? Maybe! But I'd love to see something like Logica gain more traction: https://logica.dev/

Interesting; a Google engineer previously published a Datalog variant for BigQuery: https://logica.dev/

This new language seems similar to differential-Datalog (which is sadly in maintenance mode): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33521561

Looks pretty cool. I'd be interested if the README had a comparison with Google's Logica (https://github.com/EvgSkv/logica)

Oh wow that is neat!

And yes, this kind of thing is why datalog is a lot more amenable to fast query plans & runtimes than prolog. This part is especially cool: https://github.com/EvgSkv/logica/blob/main/compiler/dialects...

Google new programming Language that compiles to SQL (Support BigQuery and Postgres) feels very exciting. Blog: https://opensource.googleblog.com/2021/04/logica-organizing-your-data-queries.html Github: https://github.com/EvgSkv/logica

Going to be? It already is. In fact, one thing the article misses is right there at the bottom of the project page: