starlark
skycfg
starlark | skycfg | |
---|---|---|
22 | 6 | |
2,238 | 634 | |
1.9% | 0.5% | |
4.1 | 3.9 | |
3 days ago | about 1 month ago | |
Starlark | Go | |
Apache License 2.0 | Apache License 2.0 |
Stars - the number of stars that a project has on GitHub. Growth - month over month growth in stars.
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starlark
- (The) Starlark Language
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Apple releases Pkl – onfiguration as code language
The implementations and users page mentioned above:
https://github.com/bazelbuild/starlark/blob/master/users.md
- Language design of Starlark (compared to Python)
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10 Ways for Kubernetes Declarative Configuration Management
Starlark: Starlark is a language for describing build transformations, inspired by Python, but with features that make it suitable for embedding in software like Bazel. It can be used for configuration generation due to its capability for deterministic evaluation and expressing complex build transformations.
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How Big Should a Programming Language Be?
In the design of Starlark (https://github.com/bazelbuild/starlark), I often had to push back against new feature requests to keep the language simple. I explicitly listed simplicity as a design goal.i
Of course, the scope of the language is not the same as general purpose languages, but there's always pressure from the users to add more things. I also think many people underestimate the cost of adding new features: it's not just about adding the code in every compiler/interpreter, specifying every edge-case in a spec, updating all the tooling for the language and writing tutorials; it's also a cost on everyone who will have to read any of the code.
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Launch HN: Moonrepo (YC W23) – Open-source build system
one of the benefits of starlark (unlike python): "Starlark is suitable for use in highly parallel applications. An application may invoke the Starlark interpreter concurrently from many threads, without the possibility of a data race, because shared data structures become immutable due to freezing." from https://github.com/bazelbuild/starlark/blob/master/spec.md - it's not python, you can't do recursion (!) and it's more limited (you can't read a file in bazel, and parse it, you have to make this operation into the graph somehow)
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When to use Bazel?
You can do the same in Bazel which uses Starlark for its BUILD files. Starlark is a dialect of Python so it makes it super easy to work with.
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[P] Docker alternative for AI/ML
Make sense. We do not use Python actually, the build language is starlark, which is the config lang used by bazel. https://github.com/bazelbuild/starlark
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The Dhall Configuration Language
Have you seen Starlark? It's not too far from that, but safer in a number of ways: https://github.com/bazelbuild/starlark
- What change should Python 4 bring, in your opinion?
skycfg
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Jsonnet – The Data Templating Language
I can definitely sympathize here - in every context, just straight JSON/YAML configuration seems never expressive enough, but the tooling created in response always seems to come with sharp edges.
Here are some of the things I appreciate about Jsonnet:
- It evals to JSON, so even though the semantics of the language are confusing, it is reasonably easy to eval and iterate on some Jsonnet until it emits what one is expecting - and after that, it's easy to create some validation tests so that regressions don't occur.
- It takes advantage of the fact that JSON is a lowest-common-denominator for many data serialization formats. YAML is technically a superset of JSON, so valid JSON is also valid YAML. Proto3 messages have a canonical JSON representation, so JSON can also adhere to protobuf schemas. This covers most "serialized data structure" use-cases I typically encounter (TOML and HCL are outliers, but many tools that accept those also accept equivalent JSON). This means that with a little bit of build-tool duct-taping, Jsonnet can be used to generate configurations for a wide variety of tooling.
- Jsonnet is itself a superset of JSON - so those more willing to write verbose JSON than learn Jsonnet can still write JSON that someone else can import/use elsewhere. Using Jsonnet does not preclude falling back to JSON.
- The tooling works well - installing the Jsonnet VSCode plugin brings in a code formatter that does an excellent job, and rules_jsonnet[0] provides good bazel integration, if that's your thing.
I'm excited about Jsonnet because now as long as other tool authors decide to consume JSON, I can more easily abstract away their verbosity without writing a purpose-built tool (looking at you, Kubernetes) without resorting to text templating (ahem Helm). Jsonnet might just be my "one JSON-generation language to rule them all"!
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Though if Starlark is your thing, do checkout out skycfg[1]
[0] - https://github.com/bazelbuild/rules_jsonnet
[1] - https://github.com/stripe/skycfg
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The Dhall Configuration Language
Can you say more about what GCL does better than all of the open source ones?
Anecdotally, I've heard a lot of GCL horror stories, and many Xooglers have chosen to create things like Jsonnet or Skycfg (https://github.com/stripe/skycfg) instead.
- YAML: It's Time to Move On
- Opinion-driven design
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Migrating Millions of Concurrent WebSockets to Envoy
If you’re looking at other solutions check out https://github.com/stripe/skycfg It works with Envoy and lots of other things that support protobuf configs
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Yaml Is The Worst Thing Ever Created K8s Should
This is good and there are several other options like https://github.com/stripe/skycfg#why-use-skycfg to add full language support (using Go or python for ex) to configurations.
What are some alternatives?
yaml-reference-parser
jsonnet - Jsonnet - The data templating language
dhall - Maintainable configuration files
isopod - An expressive DSL and framework for Kubernetes configuration without YAML
dhall-kubernetes - Typecheck, template and modularize your Kubernetes definitions with Dhall
nestedtext - Human readable and writable data interchange format
starlark-go - Starlark in Go: the Starlark configuration language, implemented in Go
ron - Rusty Object Notation
openapi-python-client - Generate modern Python clients from OpenAPI
rules_jsonnet - Jsonnet rules for Bazel
cdk8s - Define Kubernetes native apps and abstractions using object-oriented programming
kubernetes-mixin - A set of Grafana dashboards and Prometheus alerts for Kubernetes.