nesper VS FrameworkBenchmarks

I use Nim on embedded precisely for that reason: https://github.com/elcritch/nesper

I wtapped much of zephyr as well but that ones less used: https://github.com/embeddednim/nephyr

Nim supports both since it compiles with pretty much any C89 C compiler. Also https://github.com/elcritch/nesper :)

Checkout Nim! I've used it to great effect for embedded programming. It has memory management system based on non-atomic reference counting (arc) so its fast and deterministic. It has optional cycle collection too (orc). Its easy to mixin manual memory as well.

I used F# a bit and learned a lot from it, and the same with Elixir. Nim is procedural it has an "enlightened procedural" take that feels like functional programming in some ways. Partly thats due to the very powerful type system - for example Nim lets you define custom distinct (not aliased) number types just like F#. Nim also inherits a fair bit from Pascal and so shares points with Ada like ints with custom ranges. Theres some rough points, but largely its made me enjoy programming again.

The esp32 is a good route since they're easy to setup. I wrote a wrapper for esp-idf which is used in production in at least two embedded shops: https://github.com/elcritch/nesper

You can run it on Arduinos as well. Theres a pure Nim setup called Ratel and a rp2040 wrapper too. :)

You should checkout Nim! I use it extensively on embedded. Nim is fantastic to program in if you're an experienced C/C++ developer. Its safer and smarter but not not pedantic about it.

Nim compiles to C or C++ so its easy to use on any embedded platform and compiler suite. Thats still huge for embedded. Rust forces a type-trait centric programming style which makes interfacing hardware/embedded harder as you have to make type heavy HALs everywhere -- hence the lack of rtos & library support despite its relative popularity).

Its pretty trivial to re-use any C/C++ libraries which gives a big boost to the native ecosystem. I wrapped most of the esp32 idf in a few weeks: https://github.com/elcritch/nesper

The new GC (ARC) is basically a built in `shared_ptr` or `Rc`. You can also do stack-based programming too and the compiler enforces a safe memory accesses. The performance is great and can match or beat C/C++ if you do a few hours of tuning. Though its easy kill performance if you're lazy (e.g. parse json into a bunch of heaps objects), but that can have its place.

I would really like to see more work on improving the use of Nim for programming microcontrollers. I stumbled on to https://github.com/elcritch/nesper recently and it looks neat, but I had issues getting my code to compile. Improved support for other MCUs like the esp8266 and atmega32u4 would be really cool and useful. It would be nice to have Nim as a higher level alternative to micropython or lua in the embedded world (your only other real alternatives being C/C++ or Rust).

I also found this https://disconnected.systems/blog/nim-on-adruino

Well no language is perfect, but Nim can be used in almost every domain because of it's compilation targets(C, C++, JS) and it's fast compile times(who needs interpretation when compile times are that fast!):

* Shell scripting, I still assume most people will just use Bash tho: https://github.com/Vindaar/shell

* Frontend: https://github.com/karaxnim/karax or you could bind to an existing JS library.

* Backend: For something Flask-like: https://github.com/dom96/jester or something with more defaults https://github.com/planety/prologue

* Scientific computing: the wonderful SciNim https://github.com/SciNim

* Blockchain: Status has some of the biggest Nim codebases currently in production https://github.com/status-im?q=&type=&language=nim&sort=

* Gamedev: Also used in production: https://github.com/pragmagic/godot-nim and due to easy C and C++ interop, you get access to a lot of gamedev libraries!

* Embedded: this is a domain I know very little about but for example https://github.com/elcritch/nesper or https://github.com/PMunch/badger for fun Nim+embedded stuff!

Most of the disadvantages come from tooling and lack of $$$ support.

Not quite sure if I follow what you're saying. As in Tasmota/Berry do or do not do more than provide I2C/SPI?

> If one wants to do serious stuff they would use an appropriate RTOS and program it in C.

It's unfortunate, but still largely appears to be the case. I find C very time consuming to program, so I ported Nim to FreeRTOS [1]. It's _very_ nice being able to go from writing highly optimized ISR functions to high level JSON parsing in one language. Add in defaulting to memory safety but with no pause-the-world GC. I tried Rust but it seems more difficult to integrate into existing world RTOS'es, flashers, Swagger debuggers, etc.

Though, I've been curious what running a WASM VM would be like? One could integrate any language: C++, C, Nim, Rust, etc. Would be interesting.

> MongooseOS does more than this if we're talking ESP32, also other devices, Javascript, C, C++, commercial support, cloud based OTA upgrades and integration with AWS, Azure, Google and IBM Watson IoT cloud services.

MongooseOS does seem interesting, but very targeting a niche market with prebuilt needs? For future RTOS'es I think ZephyrOS [2] has a lot of potential given it's now supported by NXP [3], TI, and others but is independent of any given (cloud) vendors or other IoT companies. Some might not like the CMake based build system, but in my view all the RTOS build systems are terrible in their own special way.

1: https://github.com/elcritch/nesper

Since 2013, TechEmpower has established a backend framework benchmark. They meticulously define benchmark specifications and maintain an open-source approach that encourages contributions from the community. This benchmark has become a respected standard in the tech industry, serving as a reliable yardstick for technology competitors to assess the performance of their solutions (exemple Go Fiber, C# Asp.net, JS Just). So I can trust the Techempower benchmark.

Interested to see how this fares on Tech Empower's benchmarks: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#hw=ph&test=fortune&s...

At the moment it is at the bottom as a "did not complete"

It seems like Rust is doing a pretty good job of applying to web apps and APIs:

https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks

It would still be slower :P

At least once you start "gaming" benchmarks interpreted and/or dynamically typed languages have a strict ceiling they can't really surpass (just.js doesn't count as it's as thin wrapper on top of C as it can get)

https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#hw=ph&test=fortune&s...

(all top entries are bottlenecked by DB driver implementation and its ability to multiplex queries, and context switching cost, so those frameworks which can do perfect static partitioning and query multiplexing win out)

Neat. Thanks for sharing!

Interestingly, may-minihttp is faring very well in the TechEmpower benchmark [1], for whatever those benchmarks are worth. The code is also surprisingly straightforward [2].

[1] https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/

[2] https://github.com/TechEmpower/FrameworkBenchmarks/blob/mast...

ntex was formed after a schism in actix-web and Rust safety/unsafety, with ntex allowing more unsafe code for better performance.

ntex is at the top of the TechEmpower benchmarks, although those benchmarks are not apples-to-apples since each uses its own tricks: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#hw=ph&test=fortune&s...

Ruby is slow. Very slow. How much you may ask? https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#hw=ph&test=fortune&s... fastest Ruby entry is at 272th place. Sure, top entries tend to have questionable benchmark-golfing implementations, but it gives you a good primer on the overhead imposed by Ruby.

It is also not early 00s anymore, when you pick an interpreted language, you are not getting "better productivity and tooling". In fact, most interpreted languages lag behind other major languages significantly in the form of JS/TS, Python and Ruby suffering from different woes when it comes to package management and publishing. I would say only TS/JS manages to stand apart with being tolerable, and Python sometimes too by a virtue of its popularity and the amount of information out there whenever you need to troubleshoot.

If you liked Go but felt it being a too verbose to your liking, give .NET a try. I am advocating for it here on HN mostly for fun but it is, in fact, highly underappreciated, considered unsexy and boring while it's anything but after a complete change of trajectory in the last 3-5 years. It is actually the* stack people secretly want but simply don't know about because it is bundled together with Java in the public perception.

*productive CLI tooling, high performance, works well in a really wide range of workloads from low to high level, by far the best ORM across all languages and back-end framework that is easier to work with than Node.JS while consuming 0.1x resources

Although that seems to have improved in recent years.

https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#hw=ph&test=json§...