golf VS kakoune

I'd probably use Helix if it had 1:1 Kakoune keybindings. Or even Vim bindings.

Vim bindings are not the most consistent, but they are ubiquitous. Every program that offers Vim mode has very similar keymap. If modal text editor deviates from them, it better be for good reason.

Kakoune bindings are very different from Vim, but they are provably and objectively [1] better, so that's fine. They are also more consistent and there is a clear idea behind the whole design. It's written down in documentation. You might prefer Vim or Emacs, but at least you can see that changes from well known Vim scheme are not made at whim.

Helix keymap feels like it was improvised without any thought behind it. „Let's take Kakoune binds and add back visual mode cuz I feel like it.” Currently, they are designed by committee in this GitHub issue[2]. I don't see any design notes and explanations why should I spend time learning Helix keymap.

[1]: https://github.com/mawww/golf

People claim that their new(er) modal text editor is better/faster/requires fewer keystrokes than vi/vim/neovim, but I have yet to see some clear, objective, concrete data to back these claims up (like a benchmark of the editors for the same tasks). Is there anything of this sort? I know there's this, but it's only about kakoune/vim and it seems a little biased.

Judging by https://github.com/mawww/golf kakoune is capable of completing the majority of the same editing tasks as vim in a very similar amount of keystrokes. The main advantage of multiple selections is that you can see which text you will operate on ahead of time, rather than having to first select which operation you want (delete/yank/change/etc) and then which text it will affect. I think pointing out that vim's selections aren't as capable as kakoune's is a fair response, and saying that you can accomplish similar things without selections is a bit of a deflection.

Helix's modal editing is based on Kakoune's modal editing which is like an evolution to Vim's modal editing. You can think of it as being always in selection (visual) mode. https://github.com/mawww/kakoune?tab=readme-ov-file#selectio...

And while it doesn’t use the sam language precisely, I think in the broader “postfix Vi with visual feedback” category Kakoune[1] also warrants mentioning. The command language, in my experience, feels much more logical than that of Vis coming from a blank slate (things might be different if you come from Vim, but even when I used Vim regularly I never used the editing language that much exactly because I could never remember the damn thing).

And having mentioned Kakoune it’d probably be unfair to then not mention Helix[2]. It has a very similar editing language, but it’s a fairly anti-Unix everything-bolted-in affair on the inside (“everything works out of the box” being the advertising take) compared to Kakoune’s Acme-inspired no-scripting scripting (there’s an ex-style command to exec a user program that can then drive the editor over stdio RPC, a set of hooks, and that’s it). So if you’ve come for the Plan 9 feels, I don’t expect Helix to be that appealing. It’s still a good editor, nevertheless.

[1] https://kakoune.org/

[2] https://helix-editor.com/

You can take a look at kakoune. The source code (excluding documentations, test cases, customizations etc.) is less than 40k. It is, IMHO, a show case of a C++ project in use.

> I wonder if the author has ever heard of vis[0]

Yes.

https://github.com/martanne/vis/wiki/Differences-from-Kakoun...

https://github.com/mawww/kakoune/wiki#onboarding

> which imho fulfills far better each one of those premises

Not very motivated for such a harsh critic..

I've been using Vim for years, but if there was one thing I could change, it would be the verb-noun order. The Kakoune[1] editor behaves mostly like Vim, but where Vim has `dw` as "delete word", Kakoune has it backwards: `wd`.

It might sound minor, but by placing the range first, Kakoune can give a preview of what will be changed. The longer or more complicated the command, the more this feature shines.

Strictly better as far as I know. A shame my muscle memory, and all default installations, are still stuck with Vim.

[1] https://kakoune.org/

Helix is a postmodern text editor built in Rust built for the terminal. It is inspired by Kakoune, another Rust based text editor. Helix has got multiple selections, built-in Tree-sitter integration, powerful code manipulation and Language server support.