incubator-retired-wave VS gleam

FWIW, they donated the project to the Apache Foundation, so it's open source (albeit unmaintained).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Wave

https://github.com/apache/incubator-retired-wave

FWIW iirc it was continued for some time by apache (https://incubator.apache.org/projects/wave.html) but is also discontinued now. (I hope thats the correct project, but I'm pretty sure).

Also here: https://github.com/apache/incubator-retired-wave

to sobie postaw lokalnie

> Setters and getters are only popular in Java EE/Spring based environments (and it can be easily useful).

I'd love to see stats on how common this stuff is amongst java programmers. I agree that modern java has lots of modern tools to write reasonable code - like closures and functional primitives. But its very normal amongst a lot of java programmers to never use that stuff. I believe you if you tell me your team uses a modern, nice subset of java. But believe me when I say lots of people out there don't.

I worked as a professional interviewer for a year or so recently and interviewed 400+ programming candidates. One of the tasks was a 30 minute coding challenge - using the candidate's own computer and preferred language. A huge percentage of the java programmers, even under explicit time pressure, wasted time adding needless junk (like getters and setters or extraneous, pointless classes) to their code. I think I only saw 1 or 2 java candidates use any of java's functional programming primitives (like map) to keep their code terse and clean.

Is that the fault of java, the language? I don't know. As I said in another comment I think the problem is cultural. I don't really have a problem with java-the-language. But a large part of java-the-community seems blissfully content with mediocrity. I took java off my resume years ago because I don't want that kind of coworker.

> How do you write code, are you copying something by typing?

I don't copy+paste because in the languages I use I don't need to. Thats what the compiler is for.

> I’m sorry to assume it, but I think you only know about java development from third-hand infos and it has nothing to do with reality.

Nope. Eg:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-retired-wave/search?q=ge...

I haven't had time to really try to write anything in it, but https://gleam.run/ looks really good too. Like Elm for backend + frontend!

Want a friendly language for building safe systems at scale? Gleam is here for you. It features modern and familiar syntax, that's reliable and scalable. Gleam runs on an Erlang virtual machine, and can run plenty of concurrent tasks. It comes with a compiler, build tool, formatter, editor integrations, and package manager all built in so you can get started right away. Congrats to the team on shipping your first major version 🙌.

While I love Clojure, I have to agree about tooling. I recently started using Gleam* and was impressed at how easy it was to get up and running with the CLI tool. I think this is an important part of getting people to adopt a language.

* https://gleam.run/

If you use languages that compile to WASM (such as Gleam https://gleam.run), and can also run Postgres via WASM, then it opens very interesting offline scenarios with codebases which are similar on both the client and the server, for instance.

Recently, Gleam has gained more popularity, and a lot of developers (including me) are learning it. At the time of this writing, it has exceeded 14k stars on GitHub; it grew really fast for the last month.

Oh, strange that github had a date of 2016 on this one: https://github.com/gleam-lang/gleam/issues/2

I was just going by that, though I do remember checking out gleam 5 years ago or so.

Re: macros, I really do think they’re a big deal and all the other newer languages I’ve used, such as Rust have some kind of macros or powerful meta programming features.

For older languages, a few, like Ruby have enough meta programmability to make nice DSLs, but many others don’t. Given the choice, I’d much rather have Elixir/Clojure style macros than other meta-programming facilities I’ve seen so far.

I had been only following this language with some interest, I guess this was born in gitlab not sure if the creator(s) still work there. This is what I'd have wanted golang to be (albeit with GC when you do not have clear lifetimes).

But how would you differentiate yourself from https://gleam.run which can leverage the OTP, I'd be more interested if we can adapt Gleam to graalvm isolates so we can leverage the JVM ecosystem.