genode VS systemd

seL4 foundation members[0] are using it.

There's Genode[1], which supports it among other kernels, offering a fancy desktop environment.

However, efforts like this driver framework do help. There's also Makatea[2], an effort to implement a stronger Qubes-like system based on seL4.

0. https://sel4.systems/Foundation/Membership/

1. https://genode.org/

2. https://trustworthy.systems/projects/makatea/

> While this is true from a certain perspective, machine code creates a system which must grand access to many things to become usable. A shared file system is a good example of this. Some software could easily echo a line into you .profile that tries to launch a key-logger, and this works in many cases.

That's common, but it's certainly not a requirement to run native code. For example, we've done a pretty good job at retroactively fixing that while preserving backwards compatibility with containers (I can, and have run normal official Firefox binaries inside a docker container with zero access to my real home directory) or sandboxes like flatpak (bubblewrap). If you want to run real native binaries but don't have to preserve backwards compatibility, then it gets easy; genode ( https://genode.org/ ) does a lovely job of truly practicing only giving programs what access you want to give them.

> The expectation of software existing as opaque files creates a huge amount of work for the OS in verifying the exact behaviour of the software as it runs (and in ways which can often be circumvented), rather than a source-based approach in which malware is never allowed to touch the processor.

I think you're overoptimistic regarding what you can do with the source code short of manual (human) auditing. I mean, sure there are things you can scan for to try and catch bad behavior, but in the case of actual malice I wouldn't trust automatic code analysis to protect me.

>> I'm typing this on a nice comfy GNU/Linux box where the only blobs are some firmware

> So you suffer the worst of both worlds then. You've had to download and compile the source yourself, but as the software is designed around being distributed as blobs, so you enjoy none of the benefits that might come from source distribution.

I have no idea why you think either of those things? Depending on the distro I certainly can compile from source on my own box (ex. Gentoo, NixOS), but I can also use precompiled binaries (ex. Debian, NixOS) while still having it be trivial to go find the exact source that went in to the binary package I downloaded (this has gotten even stronger with Reproducibility efforts meaning that I can even verify the exact source and build config that created a specific binary). The actual application software and OS are available as Open Source code that can be audited, with binaries available as a convenience, and the only remaining blobs (unwelcome but impractical to fix so far) are firmware blobs with relatively constrained roles (and on machines with an IOMMU we can even enforce what access they have, which is a nice mitigation).

Genode[1] is slowly approaching the point at which I can use it as a daily driver. I hope it makes it before Windows 10 goes away. It will be nice to never have to work about viruses, or spyware, etc., any more. It'll be like a trip back to the free spirited days of DOS and write protected floppy boot disks.

[1] https://genode.org/

I'd dig into genode[1], which is a capability based operating system. You'll likely see an upsurge in interest in capability based systems in the next decade.

[1] https://genode.org/

Yet another exploit that just wouldn't work on a well-designed system, such as Genode[0].

0. https://genode.org/

Have you looked at Genode? I don't think it's usable day-to-day yet but the concepts seem interesting.

Maybe you should go into details a bit more what you are planning and why. There are (and have been) several approaches here. The most prominent might be Genode (https://www.reddit.com/r/genode, https://genode.org) and joining forces there might be a better approach than starting another project that will get lost in the details and complexity eventually.

No, the OP was not sent any harassment, the OP _did_ the harassment as it can be seen in the tweets. I mean, they are right there, just click on the links you shared. One of the OP's followers even openly called for the assassination of the project maintainer, and you have the galls to defend him? This is truly deranged stuff.

And again, there is no "vulnerability", there is simply a person that doesn't know how Linux works and has learned something new. Which again it's fine, nobody knows everything and we all learn new things everyday, it's just that normal and sensible people don't use that to make grand claims on social media and start harassment campaigns culminating in death threats.

Professional security researchers responsibly report real issues using the appropriate channels, such as defined at: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/security/policy this is not the work of a researcher, this is a grifter looking for self-promotion on social media.

> 3. even `adduser` will not allow it by default

5. useradd does allow it (as noted in a comment). 6. Local users are not the only source, there things like LDAP and AD.

7. POSIX allows it:

* https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-...

> I for one love to type out 13 extra characters

FWIW, systemd is normally pretty good at providing autocomplete suggestions, so even if you don't want to set up an alias you'll probably just have to type `--b ` to set it.

> I wonder what random ASCII escape sequences we can send.

According to the man page source[0]:

> The color specified should be an ANSI X3.64 SGR background color, i.e. strings such as `40`, `41`, …, `47`, `48;2;…`, `48;5;…`

and a link to the relevant Wikipedia page[1]. Given systemd's generally decent track record wrt defects and security issues, and the simplicity of valid colour values, I expect there's a fairly robust parameter verifier in there.

In fact, given the focus on starting the elevated command in a highly controlled environment, I'd expect the colour codes to be output to the originating terminal, not forwarded to the secure pty. That way, the only thing malformed escapes can affect is your own process, which you already have full control over anyway.

(Happy to be shown if that's a mistaken expectation though.)

[0] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/main/man/run0.xml

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#SGR_(Select_G...

bash & zsh are supported by upstream: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/tree/main/shell-completio...

the right person to replace sudo, not: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237

PS: https://pwnies.com/systemd-bugs/

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/32028#issuecomment...

There are some very compelling arguments made there if you care to read them

Maybe it was because you weren't pointing out anything new?

There was a pull request to stop linking libzma to systemd before the attack even took place

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/31550

This was likely one of many things that pushed the attackers to work faster, and forced them into making mistakes.

The PR for changing compression libraries to use dlopen() was opened several weeks before the xz-utils backdoor was revealed.

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/31550