fulcro VS shadow-cljs

I definitely believe Clojure needs a rails. Not only will it help beginners get started, if it can help people get started faster and build fast like Django and rails do, I think it'll help more with adoption.

Biff and fulcro seems like they have a shot at this

Biff- https://github.com/jacobobryant/biff

Fulcro - https://github.com/fulcrologic/fulcro

A library that is a bit leaning towards a framework is Fulcro, a fullstack library to build SPAs http://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/

Fulcro (https://github.com/fulcrologic/fulcro) is my web framework of choice whenever I need to create any non-trivial web application thanks to its productivity. Its overarching design goal is sustainable development speed as time goes and code grows and it really shows up. It is developer friendly, with minimal boilerplate, and features you need for any serious application. And it is surprisingly flexible. Fulcro is based on a few simple ideas that combine powerfully to produce a multitude of capabilities, including its Rapid Application Development "add-on". Some people find Fulcro complicated and scary - but it doesn't need to be. Stop choosing "simpler" web frameworks - and ending up implementing half of Fulcro with much more effort and verbosity and much less value. I will present the minimalist way of learning Fulcro with its three corner stones and explain Fulcro's building blocks. After this talk, you will understand the design and value of Fulcro, be motivated to learn it, and equipped to do so quickly.

I am curious how this compares to Fulcro both from a conceptual and a usage perspective. Which advantages does this offer over Fulcro?

Fulcro has a complete "story" for data-driven UIs and backends. https://github.com/fulcrologic/fulcro

We do that via Fulcro: render the first frame in CLJ on JVM, then continue with CLJS in browser. The code is a bit dirty and probably won’t tell you much (because I can’t share the whole app), but you can definitely do that.

* Single-Page App: shadow-cljs for the build concerns (https://github.com/thheller/shadow-cljs), Reagent with Re-frame for complex/large app (https://reagent-project.github.io and https://github.com/day8/re-frame). Even if we now prefer using HTMX (https://htmx.org) and server-side rendering (Hiccup way of manipulating HTML is just amazing, https://github.com/weavejester/hiccup).

Now, add shadow-cljs.

Work with latest shadow-cljs (& closure compiler) #890

You can already develop with ClojureScript on the back-end. A popular ClojureScript compiler, Shadow-CLJS (https://github.com/thheller/shadow-cljs) has a target for Node among many others.

Hi, I'm looking at Clojurescript again after not having paid attention to it after several years. Are you saying that shadow-cljs does something to deal with the, "I have no idea if this library I want to use works with the Google Closure compiler," problem? If so, what? I'd really like to know.

I don't know, the community in general tend to use macros that are well written. I keep seeing core.async being used (`go`) in Clojure projects, and also various macros for writing HTTP servers (compojure being a popular one which main code interface is a macro `defroutes`).

ClojureScript projects also routinely add support for making asynchronous code look synchronous (like `async/await` in vanilla JavaScript) via macros. shadow-cljs's `js-await` being one of the well-written ones: https://github.com/thheller/shadow-cljs/blob/49fb078b834e64f...

Usage:

    (defn my-async-fn [foo]

Unclear what "rendering a webpage" entails exactly.

If you want to do frontend development, you can give shadow-cljs a try, the quickstart is pretty quick: https://github.com/thheller/shadow-cljs#quick-start

If you want to just render server-side HTML, something like compojure (HTTP routing) and hiccup (Clojure data -> HTML) is pretty easy and quick to get started with (https://gist.github.com/zehnpaard/2071c3f55ed319aa8528d54d90...).

If you want to generate HTML files to serve with nginx/whatever, you can just use hiccup and `(spit)` the resulting HTML to files on disk.