crank VS glicol

If you enjoy this approach, you might enjoy the Crank JS framework. https://crank.js.org/

> Crank uses generator functions to define stateful components. You store state in local variables, and `yield` rather than `return` to keep it around.

I'm very interested in seeing if using the commonly implemented forms of compiler support for async programming can also be well used for GUI programming. One wishawa[0] is also perusing this approach in Rust but I first came upon this idea from the crank-js[1] authors. It wasn't clear to me why that one never went anywhere. Was it failure with the approach or was React just a good solution in the space? I can say this though, there's something strikingly elegant about those initial samples of using JavaScript generators for components.

[0]: https://github.com/wishawa/async_ui

[1]: https://github.com/bikeshaving/crank

Take a look at crank.js, a JavaScript framework where components can be written as async functions or as generators. It seems similar to what you're trying to do :)

Well there's https://crank.js.org that uses native js generators where you would you normally put hooks in. Never used it but looked like a very neat idea.

Reminds me of https://github.com/bikeshaving/crank, which was rather fun for a PoC I made a while back.

Strictly speaking, the framework hides this complexity away, but it still exists and it is the framework that's now paying the extra cost. Of course a framework is allowed, and should, when possible, hide away these things. For example Crank.js uses generators to allow for async Components as first class citizens, https://github.com/bikeshaving/crank, but they're still having to deal with the pitfalls of asynchronous work.

To give the author of https://crank.js.org/ due credit, after reading through the descriptive posts I was impressed by the amount of thought and design that went into it.

> What do you propose as an alternative?

There are lots of alternatives, but perhaps the simplest would have been to use async generators. This is how Crank[0] (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) works, and it allows you to do anything (AFAIK) that's possible with hooks with a much simpler and more testable API.

> So, sure, there are limitations and rules you have to pay attention to with hooks... but that's just programming.

No, it's not. The biggest problem with React hooks is that they are not composed of transferable knowledge, meaning memorizing these rules and patterns does not transfer outside of React; likewise, I can't use much of the knowledge I have already built up over many years of my career when using hooks. It's the same argument that's made against Rails, where you have to learn tons of Rails-specific idioms (on top of having to understand general concepts like relational database access patterns) instead of just writing code in a way that's more direct and intuitive for anyone.

My brain has limited RAM. The more things I have to keep in my head when developing against an API, the more likely I am to make a mistake. With every release of React, I seem to have to keep more and more of these details in my brain as I work. Contrast this with something like Svelte, where you really only need to fully grok about two concepts to use it effectively. I understand that this is the tradeoff the React team made, but I'm not convinced it's worth it.

[0]: https://crank.js.org/ and https://crank.js.org/blog/introducing-crank

I've worked on Ambient Engine and now on the Bevy engine. I totally agree with these points, very valuable. I only make some comments from my professional (audio) perspective:

We need the highlight author's affirmation of cli. Rust's tui (ratatui) is great. I used it to make Glicol-cli [1]. If you are a Linux user, you are welcome to test the music production of the code.

Speaking of game audio, I actually think rust is perfect for audio. I have also continued to develop Glicol recently, and my recent goal (starting tomorrow) is the bevy_glicol plug-in. I want to solve bevy's audio problem on the browser.

All in all, even though I've had my share of pain with ecs, I still think rust is very valuable for game and app development, maybe not multiplayer AAA, maybe practical apps.

[1] https://github.com/glicol/glicol-cli

[2] https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol

Nice! Great project website styling and demo.

I had a WebGPU scope demo using vanila JS here, but it's not connected to AudioContext at all.

https://stackblitz.com/edit/vitejs-vite-cuc9vs

Still, I had to use the old WebGL solution for https://glicol.org since the WebGPU support seems to be pretty slow at the moment.

Suno is great and I already shared its potential back in v2. I have always believed that the essence of digital music is "organized numbers". I think what needs to be thought about is how to use AI in this process. If you look at the results (numbers) generated, then we are indeed very close. But there is another future I believe: I hope AI can compose music with me, like copilot. This is why I keep working on

https://glicol.org/

and the destination is:

https://github.com/chaosprint/RaveForce

Also want to hear your feedback.

Interesting!

Similar note-based expression can be found on TidalCycles/Strudel. although it's not valid MIDI format anymore, you can use notation like c4, f3, and make them as "pattern". Samples are also supported in the same manner:

https://strudel.cc/

And in my project Glicol, I use only numbers in the seq node. So 60 means middle C. Underscore means rest.

https://glicol.org/

I also applied with Glicol (https://glicol.org/) and got rejected, which is totally understandable. I am basically working this project on my own with almost zero extra funding.

I am currently working on a new website. The old stack is Vite, Svelte and Windi CSS (discontinued unfortunately). So this time maybe Astro + Solid + Tailwind.

And I am also trying to rewrite the whole Rust backend if possible, so there is quite some work to be done.

Let me know on GH or Discord if you are interested.

It's a good chance to try Rust, WASM, DSP, etc.

This is a really informative and inspiring article.

It hasn’t been 6 months (not 6 years) since I quit my full-time job as a Rust developer to start my own business.

As time goes by, I can feel the pressure of mortgage and car loans, and I can also feel the care and pressure of my family.

My original plan was to make an interface for Glicol (https://glicol.org), and to develop relevant hardware with firmware written in rust for school education.

I sent some cold emails to VCs, but most of them got no reply.

I also sent an email to the Norwegian Museum of Science and Technology, offering to perform for children for free, but they didn’t reply for two months. I shamelessly sent it again, and someone finally replied with a rejection.

Only one VC talked to me and thought that I should convince and validate a partner first, and he suggested that I go to an incubator.

Very good advice.

Later I learned that even Norwegian education startups skipped Norway and focused directly on the US market.

People from the incubator also told me that it is impossible for Norwegian schools to accept new things independently.

This is very enlightening to me because most of Glicol's visitors are indeed from the US. And it took me so long to discover this fact.

But if I don’t start, I’ll never get past those six months.

I picked up LOGO when I was 6 and leant Pascal and C later.

I didn't program for a few years because I wasn't interested in competitions. So I think interest is the most important, otherwise it will be easy to get lost and give up.

Later, I became very interested in programming, mainly because I came into contact with music technology.

I think since your child is interested in game development, it is a good choice to start step by step. For example, starting with threejs. I also recommend learning Rust and Bevy so you learn the underlying layers and ECS.

Last but not least, although it's not related to games dev but I sincerely invite you and your son to try Glicol (https://glicol.org), the project that I am developing.

I quite my job as well to work on

https://glicol.org

I have a lot of feelings, but I don't have a blog so far. But one of my feelings is that universities should alloc some of their funding to many of these open source projects and open source community should be better managed rather than donation. My plan is to start my own company and work on hardware .