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burrito
- Why are Apple Silicon VMs so different?
- Show HN: Burrito v1.0.0 – Wrap Elixir Apps into Standalone Binaries
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Elixir at Ramp
Most of the BEAM isn't well-suited for trends in today's immutable architecture world (Docker deploys on something like Kubernetes or ECS). Bootup time on the VM can be long compared to running a Go or OCaml binary, or some Python applications (I find larger Python apps tend to spend a ton of time loading modules). Compile times aren't as fast as Go, so if a fresh deploy requires downloading modules and compile-from-scratch, that'll be longer than other stacks. Now, if you use stateful deploys and hot-code reloading, it's not so bad, but incorporating that involves a bit more risk and specific expertise that most companies don't want to roll into. Basically, the opposite of this article https://ferd.ca/a-pipeline-made-of-airbags.html
Macros are neat but they can really mess up your compile times, and they don't compose well (e.g. ExConstructor and typed_struct and Ecto Schemas all operate on Elixir Structs, but you can't use all three)
If your problem is CPU-bound, there are much better choices: C++, Rust, C. Python has a million libraries that use great FFI so you'll be fine using that too. Ditto memory-bound: there are better languages for this.
This is also not borne from direct experience, but: my understanding is the JVM has a lot more knobs to tune GC. The BEAM GC is IMO amazing, and did the right thing from the beginning to prevent stop-the-world pauses, but if you care about other metrics (good list in this article https://blog.plan99.net/modern-garbage-collection-911ef4f8bd...) you're probably better off with a JVM language.
While the BEAM is great at distribution, "distributed Erlang" (using the VM's features instead of what most companies do, and ad-hoc it with containers and infra) makes assumptions that you can't break, like default k-clustering (one node must be connected to all other nodes). This means you can distribute to some number of nodes, but it's hard to use Distributed Erlang for hundreds or thousands of nodes.
Deployment can be mixed, depending on what you want. BEAM Releases are nice but the lack some of the niceness of direct binaries. Libraries can work around this (like Burrito https://github.com/burrito-elixir/burrito).
If you like static types, Dialyzer is the worst of the "bolted-on" type checkers. mypy/pyright/pyre, Sorbet, Typescript are all way better, since Dialyzer only does "success typing," and gives way worse messages.
[1]: https://morepablo.com/2023/05/where-have-all-the-hackers-gone.html
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Building Apps with Tauri and Elixir
The answer was given by the Elixir community with burrito which enables users to pack up everything an Elixir application needs within a binary namely Zig Archiver to package the binary and Zig Wrapper that wraps the Erlang Virtual Machine to be used in multiple platforms (Zig + Rust in the same project 🤯).
- Burrito: Cross-Platform Elixir Deployments
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Is Elixir a good fit for a hobbyist? (Homelab automation/Content Backlog Management)
Might be worth looking into burrito for that use case?
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Which language to choose ?
Elixir is extremely practical for building systems, I know some sysadmin/devops that write their tools in it - which is maybe a bit of a leap for most. It has better support for cli stuff these days but it's not it's strong suit - you can create single-bin packages with stuff like https://github.com/burrito-elixir/burrito or regular "mix releases". (LiveView is very sexy.) It's not statically typed. There is some experimental skunkworks project to add typing to it but probably wont see any public preview until mid/late next year as I understand it.
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Sell me on Elixir
I would consider 1 to be the major blocker but Burrito has addressed many of the concerns here, including cross-compilation. The only downside of Burrito is that the first boot has to unpack the runtime (which is sub-second in my experience).
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FireZone – Tailscale Alternative – The Open Source VPN Server and Firewall
Sure! Elixir's been great. Phoenix is a joy to work with, and many of the concurrency primitives built into OTP make it the perfect foundation for a product like this. And rustler makes it super easy to add low-level / native code.
I will say the big downside to using Elixir is that distributing releases is a bit cumbersome. `mix release` expects that you're building on the same OS / version as you'll be running on, though we're looking into using something like burrito [1] aim to alleviate this.
[1] https://github.com/burrito-elixir/burrito
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Zig monthly, October 2021: Games, gamedev, Elixir, tools and more
I was intrigued so I went to hunt for the Burrito repo [1].
I thought it was some sort of Erlang native compiler written in Zig (which sounds like an incredible pain in the ass), but it's really "just" a cross-platform installer. Still useful !
[1]: https://github.com/burrito-elixir/burrito/issues?q=is%3Aissu...
v
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V Language Review (2023)
Their site is clearly showing the language is in beta. The V documentation also states that autofree is WIP, and to use the GC instead. This isn't a corporate created language, but looks to be a true volunteer open source effort from people around the world.
Their community, in comparison to others, even has their discussions open and open threads for criticism[1]. These
[1]https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610
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Towards memory safety with ownership checks for C
V also has this https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#embed_fil...
- Vlang Release v0.4.4
- Vox: Upcoming open-source browser engine in V
- Building a web blog in V & SQLite
- bultin_write_buf_to_fd_should_use_c_write
- The V Machine Learning Roadmap and Ecosystem
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Show HN: A new stdlib for Golang focusing on platform native support
Goroutines was the selling point for me until they decided to introduce telemetry in their toolchain; that was what forced me to stop using Golang as a whole.
About GC, I would say: if you implement C++'s RAII mechanism to replace garbage collection, then I believe this project will have a bright future.
My final question is the following: how `pcz` compares to V language, from a syntax's perspective [1]?
[1] https://github.com/vlang/v
- Hopefully, the V developers will establish a relationship with Microsoft.
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The V Programming Language 0.4
V has the right to exist, have its supporters, and do things its own way. The creator and developers of V, from what I have seen, has always responded well to constructive criticism. Their language has discussions opened at their GitHub, unlike those for various other languages. They even have a thread for what people don't like and want improved about the language[1], again, something many other languages don't have.
A lot of what was going on initially, was coming from obvious competitors, to include being uncivil, inflammatory, and insulting. The initial "criticism" was not so much that, but false accusations of the language being a scam, vaporware, fraud, or didn't really exist. To include attacks and jealousy about its funding and having supporters. This was not any kind of "valid" criticism, that the creator or contributors of the language could reason about.
The "criticism" never died down, but rather after V was open-sourced and established itself on GitHub. The initial series of false accusations could not stand nor could the support it was getting be stopped. So, the rhetoric and targets shifted to whatever could be found to go after on the newly released alpha version of the language and its new website. In that new mix of what was being thrown at it, there were indeed some very valid criticisms, as can be found with any new language.
Constructive and valid criticism, is not the same as insults, trolling, misinformation, rivalry, or false accusations. There is clearly a difference. It's disingenuous to pretend something from one group is the same as the other, or that the intent behind what is being done is not different.
[1] https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610
What are some alternatives?
zig - General-purpose programming language and toolchain for maintaining robust, optimal, and reusable software.
ex_tauri - Utility to build Phoenix Desktop applications using web views from Tauri
go - The Go programming language
sendgrid-v3 - Haskell Sendgrid v3 API Library
Odin - Odin Programming Language
Rustler - Safe Rust bridge for creating Erlang NIF functions
Nim - Nim is a statically typed compiled systems programming language. It combines successful concepts from mature languages like Python, Ada and Modula. Its design focuses on efficiency, expressiveness, and elegance (in that order of priority).
babashka - Native, fast starting Clojure interpreter for scripting
sokol - minimal cross-platform standalone C headers
capacitor - Build cross-platform Native Progressive Web Apps for iOS, Android, and the Web ⚡️
hn-search - Hacker News Search