containers VS Graal

eclipse-temurin:11 https://hub.docker.com/_/eclipse-temurin

Then you build the container. That will download that container that already has linux with java on it, like this one: https://hub.docker.com/_/eclipse-temurin

You can shrink the docker image greatly by starting with an Alpine based one like this https://hub.docker.com/_/eclipse-temurin

> Just imagine the vast number of poorly cached CI jobs pulling gigabytes from Docker hub on every commit, coupled with naive aproaches to CI/CD when doing microservices, prod/dev/test deployments, etc.

I hit the rate limits that others talk of in the comments, which motivated me to use Nexus for both proxying and storing my own container images.

So far, it's been pretty good, I actually wrote about the process on my blog, "Moving from GitLab Registry to Sonatype Nexus": https://blog.kronis.dev/tutorials/moving-from-gitlab-registr...

Another thing that I tried, however, was to only rely upon Docker Hub for the base images that I want (Ubuntu in my case) and then build everything I need on top of that, doing things like installing Java/Node/Python/Ruby/... manually, adding utilities I want across all of the images etc.

Once again, I wrote about it on my blog, "Using Ubuntu as the base for all of my containers": https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/using-ubuntu-as-the-base-fo...

That approach is absolutely more work, but also is something that's underexplored and works really nicely for me. Now I mostly rely on the OS package manager repositories (or mirrors of those), put less load on Docker Hub, don't risk running into its rate limits and also have common base layers across most of the images that I build, which in practice means less data actually needing to be downloaded to any of the servers where I want to utilize my images.

Of course, the downside is that getting something like PHP running was an absolute pain (tried with Apache, didn't work for some reason, then moved over to Nginx), and I technically miss out on some of the more complex space optimizations because if you look at the Dockerfiles for some of the more popular images, like OpenJDK, you'll occasionally see some interesting approaches, like getting the software package as a bunch of files and "installing" them directly, as opposed to using something like apt/yum: https://github.com/adoptium/containers/blob/08dd7d416cee0fe0...

Then again, personally I'd much prefer to rely on packages that I can get from something like apt directly, even if some of those versions can be a bit older (or add the project's official apt repositories as needed).

The FROM looks incorrect. When i watch the Youtube video it mentions adoptopenjdk which is deprecated (https://hub.docker.com/\_/adoptopenjdk). You now should use https://hub.docker.com/_/eclipse-temurin/.

Eclipse Temurin is maintaining a rich collection of Java images.

Intially only the 17 was the musl-native variant, later added 11 and very recently (6 days ago) for 8 as well: https://github.com/adoptium/containers/issues/72

Contrary to what vocal Kotlin advocates might believe, Kotlin only matters on Android, and that is thanks to Google pushing it no matter what.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023

https://snyk.io/reports/jvm-ecosystem-report-2021/

And even so, they had to conceed Android and Kotlin on their own, without the Java ecosystem aren't really much useful, thus ART is now updatable via Play Store, and currently supports OpenJDK 17 LTS on Android 12 and later devices.

As for your question regarding numbers, mostly Java 74.6%, C++ 13.7%, on the OpenJDK, other JVM implementations differ, e.g. GraalVM is mostly Java 91.8%, C 3.6%.

https://github.com/openjdk/jdk

https://github.com/oracle/graal

Two examples from many others, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines

Pkl was built using the GraalVM Truffle framework. So it supports runtime compilation using Futurama Projections. We have been working with Apple on this for a while, and I am quite happy that we can finally read the sources!

https://github.com/oracle/graal/tree/master/truffle

Disclaimer: graalvm dev here.

That's pretty interesting. It's not as aggressive as Bee sounds, but the Espresso JVM is somewhat similar in concept. It's a full blown JVM written in Java with all the mod cons, which can either be compiled ahead of time down to memory-efficient native code giving something similar to a JVM written in C++, or run itself as a Java application on top of another JVM. In the latter mode it obviously doesn't achieve top-tier performance, but the advantage is you can easily hack on it using all the regular Java tools, including hotswapping using the debugger.

When run like this, the bytecode interpreter, runtime system and JIT compiler are all regular Java that can be debugged, edited, explored in the IDE, recompiled quickly and so on. Only the GC is provided by the host system. If you compile it to native code, the GC is also written in Java (with some special conventions to allow for convenient direct memory access).

What's most interesting is that Espresso isn't a direct translation of what a classical C++ VM would look like. It's built on the Truffle framework, so the code is extremely high level compared to traditional VM code. Details like how exactly transitions between the interpreter/compiled code happen, how you communicate pointer maps to the GC and so on are all abstracted away. You don't even have to invoke the JIT compiler manually, that's done for you too. The only code Espresso really needs is that which defines the semantics of the Java bytecode language and associated tools like the JDWP debugger protocol.

https://github.com/oracle/graal/tree/master/espresso

This design makes it easy to experiment with new VM features that would be too difficult or expensive to implement otherwise. For example it implements full hotswap capability that lets you arbitrarily redefine code and data on the fly. Espresso can also fully self-host recursively without limit, meaning you can achieve something like what's described in the paper by running Espresso on top of Espresso.

I'm also using GraalVM if that's of any help.

Quarkus is one of Java frameworks for microservices development and cloud-native deployment. It is developed as container-first stack and working with GraalVM and HotSpot virtual machines (VM).

Apologies, I didn't mean to imply DCEVM went poof, just that I was sad it didn't make it into OpenJDK so one need not do JDK silliness between the production one and the "debugging one" since my experience is that's an absolutely stellar way to produce Heisenbugs

And I'll be straight: Graal scares me 'cause Oracle but I just checked and it looks to the casual observer that it's straight-up GPLv2 now so maybe my fears need revisiting: https://github.com/oracle/graal/blob/vm-23.1.0/LICENSE

> to be compiled to a single executable is a strength that Java does not have

I think this is very outdated claim: https://www.graalvm.org/

https://github.com/oracle/graal/issues/7182