SICL
ponyc
SICL | ponyc | |
---|---|---|
26 | 61 | |
1,051 | 5,602 | |
- | 0.2% | |
9.9 | 9.2 | |
10 days ago | 6 days ago | |
TeX | C | |
GNU General Public License v3.0 or later | BSD 2-clause "Simplified" License |
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SICL
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Ask HN: Guide for Implementing Common Lisp
This is a very approachable paper from 1990 on one way to do it with a C kernel bootstrapping to Common Lisp: https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/kcl/paper... Kyoto Common Lisp (KCL) is the ancestor of today's Embeddable Common Lisp (ECL).
SICL is probably the best modern version of CL written in CL from a design standpoint, even if it's not taking over SBCL's role anytime soon: https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL It uses some fancy bootstrapping to have the whole language available early, e.g. their definition of class 'symbol is:
(defclass symbol (t)
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An implementation of Common Lisp targeting Lua
That's pretty much the objective of SICL, which is "intentionally divided into many implementation-independent modules that are written in a totally or near-totally portable way, so as to allow other implementations to incorporate these modules from SICL, rather than having to maintain their own, perhaps implementation-specific versions".
https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
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Strong typing, a hill I'm willing to die on
Gladly!
https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL (which I wrote a decent chunk of the compiler backend of.)
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lisp-in-lisp: an experimental implementation of the lisp interpreter in itself
I applaud your curiosity and initiative to explore. Are you aware of https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL?
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NSA urges orgs to use memory-safe programming languages
I mean this Klein and this SICL. Self and Common Lisp are memory-safe, though the implementations need capabilities to manipulate memory; SICL encapsulates them using first-class global environments.
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Re-targeting (Lisp) compilers
There is significant overlap with SICL and its associated pieces which supply many of the other parts needed to make a Common Lisp. Some of these are Cluster which provides a portable and extensible assembler, Eclector which supplies a portable and extensible reader, Concrete-Syntax-Tree that supports source code tracking during compilation, ctype that implements the Common Lisp type system, and Clostrum that provides first-class environments for e.g. run-time, evaluation, and compilation. The SICL project has as one of its goals the creation of portable infrastructure for implementing Common Lisp, and these pieces are novel building blocks that were created as part of the project.
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Question from a new Lisper
Not really; you can do it with primitive operations e.g. here is the list in the Cleavir compiler and a paper on "magic" in Jikes RVM. SBCL also has a "virtual op"/vop language for code generation, and vops are written to manipulate objects with assembly snippets.
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When a young programmer who has been using C for several years is convinced that C is the best possible programming language and that people who don't prefer it just haven't use it enough, what is the best argument for Lisp vs C, given that they're already convinced in favor of C?
Both work. I basically never have to touch C or even FFI (cl+ssl being the main use of FFI for me), unless I am poking at SBCL guts in my spare time, and that isn't necessary either. I am sure many Haskell hackers are happy with their IO monad too.
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Some questions from a new user.
It's used in operating systems, compilers and CLIs.
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Open source compilers that use three address code as IR?
The Cleavir Common Lisp compiler uses three-address instructions in a control-flow graph, though it is intended more for production use than educational use.
ponyc
- Old Version
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The problem with general purpose programming languages
For example, the actor's model is not used by a lot of languages, Pony (https://www.ponylang.io/) and Elixir are the only ones that I know, but they address the concurrency problem quite well, while it's a pain to deal with in other languages at large scale.
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Found a language in development called Vale which claims to be the safest AOT compiled language in the World (Claims to beSafer than Rust)
And that last point is critical. If the language flatly can't represent some concepts it uses, they have to be implemented somewhere else. I had a similar discussion with a proponent for Pony once- the language itself is 100% safe, and fully dependent on C for its runtime and data structures. One of Rust's core strengths is being able to express unsafe concepts, meaning the unsafe code can expose a safe interface that accurately describes its requirements rather than an opaque C ABI. Vale doesn't seem to do that.
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The Rust I wanted had no future
"Exterior iteration. Iteration used to be by stack / non-escaping coroutines, which we also called "interior" iteration, as opposed to "exterior" iteration by pointer-like things that live in variables you advance. Such coroutines are now finally supported by LLVM (they weren't at the time) and are actually a fairly old and reliable mechanism for a linking-friendly, not-having-to-inline-tons-of-library-code abstraction for iteration. They're in, like, BLISS and Modula-2 and such. Really normal thing to have, early Rust had them, and they got ripped out for a bunch of reasons that, again, mostly just form "an argument I lost" rather than anything I disagree with today. I wish Rust still had them. Maybe someday it will!"
I remember that one. The change was shortly after I started fooling with Rust and was major. Major as in it broke all the code that I'd written to that point.
"Async/await. I wanted a standard green-thread runtime with growable stacks -- essentially just "coroutines that escape, when you need them too"."
I remember that one, too; it was one of the things that drew me to the language---I was imagining something more like Pony (https://www.ponylang.io/).
"The Rust I Wanted probably had no future, or at least not one anywhere near as good as The Rust We Got."
Almost certainly true. But The Rust We Got is A Better C++, which was never appealing to me because I never liked C++ anyway.
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How long until Rust becomes mandatory, and use of any other language opens the developer up to Reckless Endangerment charges
Pony or bust.
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Universal parameter passing semantics
If you have a value in mutable storage, and want to treat it as an immutable parameter without copying it first, you will need to provide some way to guarantee that it won't be mutated while being treated as immutable! There doesn't seem to be a definitive best way to do that (although the likes of Pony make a try at it).
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Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
The love child of Erlang and Rust exists already: Pony.
https://www.ponylang.io
It really is the best of both languages... unfortunately, the main supporter of Pony seems to have stopped using it in favour of Rust though :D.
But if that's really what you want, Pony is your language. It definitely deserves more love.
- Programming language rule
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Why Turborepo is migrating from Go to Rust – Vercel
You can actually try to have a magic language which "does not ignore decades of PL research" but you are likely to get either something broken or a project that is likely not going to release in our lifetime.
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Show HN: Ractor – a Rust-based actor framework with clusters and supervisors
Never a bad time to plug Pony lang[1] - a safety-oriented actor-model language. In addition to the numerous safety guarantees, you also get a beautiful syntax and automatic memory management. Really a great language that often gets overshadowed by Rust's hype-turfing.
[1]: https://www.ponylang.io/
What are some alternatives?
HVM - A massively parallel, optimal functional runtime in Rust
gleam - ⭐️ A friendly language for building type-safe, scalable systems!
clasp - clasp Common Lisp environment
Halide - a language for fast, portable data-parallel computation
whirlisp - A whirlwind Lisp adventure
prolog-to-minizinc - A Prolog-to-MiniZinc translator
one-more-re-nightmare - A fast regular expression compiler in Common Lisp
Phoenix - wxPython's Project Phoenix. A new implementation of wxPython, better, stronger, faster than he was before.
gophernotes - The Go kernel for Jupyter notebooks and nteract.
tab-rs - The intuitive, config-driven terminal multiplexer designed for software & systems engineers
river-runner - Uses USGS/MERIT Basin data to visualize the path of a rain droplet to its endpoint.
Nim - Nim is a statically typed compiled systems programming language. It combines successful concepts from mature languages like Python, Ada and Modula. Its design focuses on efficiency, expressiveness, and elegance (in that order of priority).