SES-shim VS deno

I used E in the 90s: http://erights.org/

I haven't kept up with newer systems but I've heard of https://github.com/endojs/endo and just came across http://reports-archive.adm.cs.cmu.edu/anon/home/anon/isr2017... (which says "in the style of the E programming language" -- that's as far as I've read) while looking that up.

WebAssembly was designed to follow the same capability security principles. CHERI too as someone else just brought up.

There are other potential solutions I haven’t explored close enough (like Endo and SES), or completely omitted as they’re based on an imperfect blacklist-based approach to security (like sandboxed WebWorkers). However, the mentioned 4 solutions are the top contenders, at least in my mind.

I don't know why you are being silently downvoted, as I think it is worth talking about the potential of using static analysis to improve things.

One promising approach is Endo[0] which "uses LavaMoat to automatically generate reviewable policies that determine what capabilities will be distributed to third party dependencies."

[0] https://github.com/endojs/endo

Agoric moved forward and Realms gave way to SES

https://github.com/endojs/endo/tree/master/packages/ses

And Endo is a set of tools (being) built around it to make it more practical for particular usecases

Yea you could restrict the app by whitelisting only the network services and folders that it will use and that's pretty valuable though at least on Linux could already easily be achieved otherwise. It's good that Deno makes it easy but let's be honest, most people will just pass -A.

I'd love to see a permissions system on a library basis. It would ask the first time a dependency is added and when a new permission is requested after an update. Javascript doesn't make that easy though by being so dynamic. SES could maybe help: https://github.com/endojs/endo/blob/master/packages/ses/READ...

I was poking around on the internet a bit earlier and I found this project. It looks pretty cool, and I figured perhaps a few of y'all might find it cool too!

I have no idea if it actually sandboxes networking by default. This other project, endo[0], seems to add some of that functionality.

Regardless of the maturity though, it makes me excited to see this type of work getting done now!

(What made me want to research it was this[1] thread from the other day.)

0: https://github.com/endojs/endo

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30215212

Fortunately the problem could become more tractable if something like SES / Endo takes off:

"Endo protects program integrity both in-process and in distributed systems. SES protects local integrity, defending an application against supply chain attacks: hacks that enter through upgrades to third-party dependencies. Endo does this by encouraging the Principle of Least Authority. ... Endo uses LavaMoat to automatically generate reviewable policies that determine what capabilities will be distributed to third party dependencies."

https://github.com/endojs/endo

Yeah. JavaScript is probably the closest to being there (with things like SES[0], LavaMoat[1], etc.) but we're not quite there yet. It's just shocking that this sort of thing is as seemingly obscure as it is; it's like the whole industry has collectively thrown up their hands and said code execution is unavoidably radioactively dangerous. (While simultaneously using package managers that... well.) But it doesn't have to be!

[0] https://github.com/Agoric/ses-shim

[1] https://github.com/LavaMoat/LavaMoat

NodeJS is the dominant Javascript server runtime environment for Javascript and Typescript (sort of) projects. But over the years, we have seen several attempts to build alternative runtime environments such as Deno and Bun, today’s subject, among others.

https://github.com/denoland/deno/issues is the ideal place -- we try to triage all incoming issues, the more specific the repro the easier it is to address but we will take a look at everything that comes in.

Install Node.js (or Bun, or Deno, or whatever JS runtime you prefer) if it's not there

QUIC is very exciting, after seeing what it can do for performance in Cloudflare network and Cloudflare workers, I can't wait to finally see it in Deno[0] 1.41.

[0] https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/21942#issuecomment-192...

So as an end user it's kind of like https://deno.com/ where you buy into a runtime + comes prepacked with DBs (k/v stores), scheduling, and deploy stuff?

> by storing Unison code in a database, keyed by the hash of that code, we gain a perfect incremental compilation cache which is shared among all developers of a project. This is an absolutely WILD feature, but it's fantastic and hard to go back once you've experienced it. I am basically never waiting around for my code to compile - once code has been parsed and typechecked once, by anyone, it's not touched again until it's changed.

Interesting. Whats it like upgrading and managing dependencies in that code? I'd assume it gets more complex when it's not just the Union system but 3rd party plugins (stuff interacting with the OS or other libs).

~90MB+ at this stage and do now allow compression without erroring out. Deploying ala Golang is not feasible at that level but could well be down the line if this dev branch is picked up again!

The exe output grew from from ~50MB to plus ~90MB from 2021 to 2024: https://github.com/denoland/deno/discussions/9811 which mean Deno is worse than Node.js's pkg solution by a decent margin.

Behind the scenes is a simple Sveltekit-powered server function to fetch a Spotify client token then find a user's recommendation playlist and its track information. A Deno edge function to performs this data fetch and renders server-side Svelte.

If your application is written in JavaScript, integrating it with JavaScript extensions is a no-brainer. However, Secutils.dev is entirely written in Rust. How would I even begin? Fortunately, I recently came across an excellent blog post series explaining how to implement your JavaScript runtime in a Rust application with Deno: