pasv VS dafny

Compare pasv vs dafny and see what are their differences.

pasv

The Pascal-F Verifier (by John-Nagle)

dafny

Dafny is a verification-aware programming language (by dafny-lang)
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pasv dafny
5 32
44 2,786
- 5.2%
10.0 9.7
almost 7 years ago 7 days ago
Common Lisp C#
- GNU General Public License v3.0 or later
The number of mentions indicates the total number of mentions that we've tracked plus the number of user suggested alternatives.
Stars - the number of stars that a project has on GitHub. Growth - month over month growth in stars.
Activity is a relative number indicating how actively a project is being developed. Recent commits have higher weight than older ones.
For example, an activity of 9.0 indicates that a project is amongst the top 10% of the most actively developed projects that we are tracking.

pasv

Posts with mentions or reviews of pasv. We have used some of these posts to build our list of alternatives and similar projects. The last one was on 2024-05-04.
  • Verified Rust for low-level systems code
    6 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 4 May 2024
    Then you go to the more elaborate prover. We used the Boyer-Moore prover for that. After proving a implies b, that became a theorem/rule the fast prover could use when it matched. So if the same situation came up again in code, the rule would be re-used automatically.

    I notice that the examples for this verified Rust system don't seem to include a termination check for loops. You prove that loops terminate by demonstrating that some nonnegative integer expression decreases on each iteration and never goes negative. If you can't prove that easily, the code has no place in mission-critical code.

    Microsoft's F* is probably the biggest success in this area.[3]

    [1] https://archive.org/details/manualzilla-id-5928072/page/n3/m...

    [2] https://github.com/John-Nagle/pasv

    [3] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/programming-w...

  • Why Is Common Lisp Not the Most Popular Programming Language?
    8 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 14 Feb 2024
    This is a generic problem with macro systems, of course, which is why C deliberately had a weak macro system.

    LISP is a blast from the path. It's fun for retro reasons, but things have moved on.

    [1] https://github.com/John-Nagle/nqthm

    [2] https://github.com/John-Nagle/pasv/tree/master/src/CPC4

  • Will Computers Redefine the Roots of Math?
    6 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 30 Jun 2023
    > In the 70's, this wasn't considered a 'real' proof.

    I ran into that decades ago. We used the original Boyer-Moore theorem prover [1] as part of a program verification system. The system had two provers, the Nelson-Oppen simplifier (the first SAT solver) to automatically handle the easy proofs, and the Boyer-Moore system for the hard ones. To make sure that both had consistent theories, I used the Boyer-Moore prover to prove the "axioms" of the Nelson-Oppen system, especially what are usually called McCarthy's axioms (the ones that use Select and Store) for arrays.

    The Boyer-Moore system uses a strictly constructive approach to mathematics. It starts from something like Peano arithmetic (there is a number zero, and an operation add 1) and builds up number theory. So I added a concept of arrays, represented as (index, value) tuples in sorted order, and was able to prove the usual "axioms" for arrays as theorems.

    The machine proofs were long and involved much case analysis.[2] I submitted a paper to JACM in the early 1980s and got back reviews saying that it was just too long and inelegant to be at the fundamentals of computer science. That might not be the case today.

    A few years back, I put the Boyer-Moore prover on Github, after getting it to work with Gnu Common LISP. So you can still run all this 1980s stuff. It's much faster today. It took about 45 minutes to grind through these proofs on a VAX 11/780 in the early 1980s. Now it takes about a second.

    The proof log [2] is amusing. It's building up number theory from a very low level, starting by proving that X + 0 = X. Each theorem proved can be used as a lemma by later theorems, so you guide the process by giving it problems to solve in the right order. By line 1900, it's proving that multiplication distributes over addition. Array theory, the new stuff, starts around line 2994.

    The reason this is so complicated and ugly is that there's no use of axiomatic set theory. Arrays are easy if you have sets. But there are no sets here. Sets don't fit well into this strict constructive theory, because EQUAL means identical. You can't create weaker definitions of equality which say that two sets are equal if they contain the same elements regardless of order, because that introduces a risk of unsoundness. Effort must be put into keeping the tuples of the array representation in ascending order by subscript, which implies much case analysis. Mathematicians hate case analysis. Computers are good at it.

    [1] https://github.com/John-Nagle/nqthm

    [2] https://github.com/John-Nagle/pasv/blob/master/src/work/temp...

  • What I've Learned About Formal Methods in Half a Year
    3 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 10 Apr 2023
    behave as if it does. The other extreme would be a GUI program.

    [1] http://www.animats.com/papers/verifier/verifiermanual.pdf

    [2] https://github.com/John-Nagle/pasv

  • Grothendieck's Approach to Equality [pdf]
    2 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 30 May 2022
    which proves that the storing operation always produces a validly ordered array. That's essentially a code proof of correctness for a recursive function The Boyer-Moore prover was able to grind out a proof of that without help. That was a long proof, too.

    I submitted this to JACM. It was rejected, mostly for uglyness. The concept that you needed all this heavy machine-driven case analysis to prove a nice simple "axiom" upset mathematicians. Today it would be less of an issue. People are now more used to proofs that take a lot of grinding through cases.

    You could build up set theory this way, via ordered lists, if you wanted.

    So that's a classic of what happens if you take "equal" seriously.

    [1] http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/towards.pdf

    [2] https://theory.stanford.edu/~arbrad/papers/arrays.pdf

    [3] https://github.com/John-Nagle/pasv/blob/master/src/work/temp...

    [4] https://github.com/John-Nagle/nqthm

dafny

Posts with mentions or reviews of dafny. We have used some of these posts to build our list of alternatives and similar projects. The last one was on 2024-05-04.
  • Verified Rust for low-level systems code
    6 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 4 May 2024
    For those that are interested but perhaps not aware in this similar project, Dafny is a "verification-aware programming language" that can compile to rust: https://github.com/dafny-lang/dafny
  • Dafny is a verification-aware programming language
    4 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 23 Apr 2024
  • Candy – a minimalistic functional programming language
    5 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 24 Feb 2024
  • Dafny – a verification-aware programming language
    1 project | news.ycombinator.com | 28 Nov 2023
  • Lean4 helped Terence Tao discover a small bug in his recent paper
    10 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 27 Oct 2023
    Code correctness is a lost art. I requirement to think in abstractions is what scares a lot of devs to avoid it. The higher abstraction language (formal specs) focus on a dedicated language to describe code, whereas lower abstractions (code contracts) basically replace validation logic with a better model.

    C# once had Code Contracts[1]; a simple yet powerful way to make formal specifications. The contracts was checked at compile time using the Z3 SMT solver[2]. It was unfortunately deprecated after a few years[3] and once removed from the .NET Runtime it was declared dead.

    The closest thing C# now have is probably Dafny[4] while the C# dev guys still try to figure out how to implement it directly in the language[5].

    [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/code-contra...

    [2] https://github.com/Z3Prover/z3

    [3] https://github.com/microsoft/CodeContracts

    [4] https://github.com/dafny-lang/dafny

    [5] https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/issues/105

  • The Deep Link Equating Math Proofs and Computer Programs
    5 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 11 Oct 2023
    I don't think something that specific exists. There are a very large number of formal methods tools, each with different specialties / domains.

    For verification with proof assistants, [Software Foundations](https://softwarefoundations.cis.upenn.edu/) and [Concrete Semantics](http://concrete-semantics.org/) are both solid.

    For verification via model checking, you can check out [Learn TLA+](https://learntla.com/), and the more theoretical [Specifying Systems](https://lamport.azurewebsites.net/tla/book-02-08-08.pdf).

    For more theory, check out [Formal Reasoning About Programs](http://adam.chlipala.net/frap/).

    And for general projects look at [F*](https://www.fstar-lang.org/) and [Dafny](https://dafny.org/).

  • Dafny
    1 project | news.ycombinator.com | 13 Sep 2023
  • The Dafny Programming and Verification Language
    1 project | news.ycombinator.com | 6 Sep 2023
  • In Which I Claim Rich Hickey Is Wrong
    5 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 24 Jul 2023
    Dafny and Whiley are two examples with explicit verification support. Idris and other dependently typed languages should all be rich enough to express the required predicate but might not necessarily be able to accept a reasonable implementation as proof. Isabelle, Lean, Coq, and other theorem provers definitely can express the capability but aren't going to churn out much in the way of executable programs; they're more useful to guide an implementation in a more practical functional language but then the proof is separated from the implementation, and you could also use tools like TLA+.

    https://dafny.org/

    https://whiley.org/

    https://www.idris-lang.org/

    https://isabelle.in.tum.de/

    https://leanprover.github.io/

    https://coq.inria.fr/

    http://lamport.azurewebsites.net/tla/tla.html

  • Programming Languages Going Above and Beyond
    7 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 29 Jun 2023
    > I think we can assume it won't be as efficient has hand written code

    Actually, surprisingly, not necessarily the case!

    If you'll refer to the discussion in https://github.com/dafny-lang/dafny/issues/601 and in https://github.com/dafny-lang/dafny/issues/547, Dafny can statically prove that certain compiler branches are not possible and will never be taken (such as out-of-bounds on index access, logical assumptions about whether a value is greater than or less than some other value, etc). This lets you code in the assumptions (__assume in C++ or unreachable_unchecked() under rust) that will allow the compiler to optimize the codegen using this information.

What are some alternatives?

When comparing pasv and dafny you can also consider the following projects:

UniMath - This coq library aims to formalize a substantial body of mathematics using the univalent point of view.

tlaplus - TLC is a model checker for specifications written in TLA+. The TLA+Toolbox is an IDE for TLA+.

Coq-HoTT - A Coq library for Homotopy Type Theory

FStar - A Proof-oriented Programming Language

cubical - An experimental library for Cubical Agda

rust - Rust for the xtensa architecture. Built in targets for the ESP32 and ESP8266

verus-analyzer - A Verus compiler front-end for IDEs (derived from rust-analyzer)

koka - Koka language compiler and interpreter

Rust-for-Linux - Adding support for the Rust language to the Linux kernel.

interactive - .NET Interactive combines the power of .NET with many other languages to create notebooks, REPLs, and embedded coding experiences. Share code, explore data, write, and learn across your apps in ways you couldn't before.

rust - Empowering everyone to build reliable and efficient software.

checkedc - Checked C is an extension to C that lets programmers write C code that is guaranteed by the compiler to be type-safe. The goal is to let people easily make their existing C code type-safe and eliminate entire classes of errors. Checked C does not address use-after-free errors. This repo has a wiki for Checked C, sample code, the specification, and test code.