nocode VS pyflow

> "no cruft: no build systems, no null, no exception handling, no ORMs, no OOP, no inheritence hierarchies, no async/await, no compilation, no dev environments, no dependency hell, no packaging, no git, no github, no devops: no yaml, no config files, no docker, no containers, no kubernetes, no ci/cd pipelines, no terraform, no orchestrating, no infrastructure: no sql, no nosql, no connection poolers, no sharding, no indexes, no servers, no serverless, no networking, no load balancers, no 200 cloud services, no kafka, no memcached, no unix, no OSes"

I'll be honest, I did the same and at first thought Darklang was a troll project along the lines of https://github.com/kelseyhightower/nocode.

Either this is one hell of a project that is taking on all problems (and will consequently fail), or this pitch is misguided. The majority of what is listed there have nothing to do with languages.

I hope this clears some of the fears of missing out (FOMO) that you might have about SurrealDB not having traditional SQL joins. You can still do the things you need to do such as with the subqueries. When it comes to the traditional joins though, we think about it more in terms of the joy of missing out (JOMO) because the best way to reduce errors in your code is by writing less code, as seen in our record links example.

Vanilla Design is a super lightweight, ultra high-performance React UI library. Vanilla Design Team places a great emphasis on code size and performance, drawing inspiration from the nocode philosophy, which has significantly boosted the security and maintainability of Vanilla Design. It's like they've added an extra layer of bulletproofing and polish to their creation!

There are some open source competitors to Airtable and Notion that can provide good insight. Check out https://github.com/kelseyhightower/nocode

Well 100 is a number. And here is the relation: https://sources.debian.org/stats/ and here is how to get 0 bugs: https://github.com/kelseyhightower/nocode

This is my background and i years of experience hosting this..

Asta kelseyhightower/nocode: The best way to write secure and reliable applications. Write nothing; deploy nowhere. (github.com) are mii de forkuri si zeci de mii de stelute, activitate masiva la 'issues' - mii, sute de 'pull requests', clar ca rezolva o problema reala, nu?

Well, you can write a bug-free application..

First off, congratulations on entering the Computer Science!

Second, I am not sure what is a bigger joke here, the project itself and the OP's innocuous and cute self-promotion or the fact that this post landed the HN's front page.

0. Terms and definitions.

"You" refers not to the author of the tool but to the dear reader who happens to stumble upon this comment in the stream of random screen scrolling.

1. Comment body.

Couple of things about CS classes and specifically about programming classes. They will teach you everything but the most important engineering principles. And you'll have to adjust your learnings once you leave the campus gate behind and enter the wilderness of real tasks and challenges.

The first biggest lesson I learnt as a CS graduate was that the most beautiful, efficient and valuable software program is the one that does not exist, literally no code[0]

The second biggest lesson I learnt as a CS graduate was YAGNI[0]. You never ever write a single line of code, even touch the keyboard until you are absolutely sure you have exhausted all possible options to solve your problem without getting your hands dirty with programming.

The third biggest lesson I learnt as a CS graduate was RTFM[2]. It is so exciting to go to conferences and see people present fancy slides and watch youtube videos with lollipop coloured pictures explaining some complex topics in a eli5 style. Or read blog posts on a gazillion of websites posted by unknown unknowns but yet coming so convincing as if they were written by John Carmack or ChatGPT 5. But then none of them tell you the whole truth and show you the full picture. It is only official documentation, manuals and boring reference specifications that can help you find what you are looking for. And you will need to learn the skill of grinding hunderds of pages of badly styled refdocs to find that really nitty gritty quirky feature that consumed your whole day in finding out why your code does not work as expected. That's where you will start proceeding to the official docs and source code (if needed) before anything else (even Stackoverflow!).

There have been so many git wrappers around, you can probably try them all (tig, jj, gh-cli, gitui, lazygit, gix, you google it). But then, no matter how much effort their authors invest in those tools, there will always be inconsistency between git and its wrapper and you find yourself resorting to git to do what was supposed to be covered by the bespoke tool. And then you learn to respect git, understand its concepts as they were designed, learn some bash and git aliases[3], ditch all those tools (or the majority of them) and proceed with your personal tailored toolbox where if you find something odd you adjust it for your needs within 10 minutes and chill out.

[0] - https://github.com/kelseyhightower/nocode

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_aren%27t_gonna_need_it

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM

[3] - https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Basics-Git-Aliases

Very cool! Of note, I made something along these lines a few years ago, although with a slightly broader scope to also include managing and installing python versions. I abandoned it due to lack of free time, and edge cases breaking things. The major challenge is that Python packages that aren't wheels can do surprising things due to setup.py running arbitrary code. (https://github.com/David-OConnor/pyflow)

Pyflow

Pyflow takes care of the use when you need pyenv to isolate different python versions, pipx to isolate some global python-based tools, and isolated, reproducible builds per project with on tool. I highly recommend people to give it go.

https://github.com/David-OConnor/pyflow#a-thoroughly-biased-...

Pyflow is a similar implementation of PEP582. NGL I wonder if it's better because of how good Rust stuff is. Probably a lot faster. Looks like you can install it via Pypi. I should've tested it before moving to PDM. Though it seems dev is a bit slow. Hmmm.

I’m personally complaining that pip is so much behind cargo. I have some hope with Pyflow though.

I literally stumbled into this issue again today. Has anyone leveraged Pyflow before? It looks pretty slick for keeping things organized. I don't do heavy dev work, just need something to keep things generally tidy. Was curious if anyone had used it and their opinion on it.

PDM is pretty new so it’s not entirely clear how it’ll play out but if you’re interested in PEP 582 then it’s really that or pyflow.

It's a good safeguard, and it's going in the direction of the other initiatives to make python package management default behavior saner.

PEP 852 is the another one to follow up: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0582/

It basically uses the concept of node_modules, making python interpreters local any local __pypackages__ directory. There are 2 differences though:

- unlike JS, python can only have one version of one lib

- but since having several versions of python often matters, you may have several __pypackages__/X.Y sub dirs to catter to each of them

It does also force you to use "-m" to use commands, which is the best practice anyway. I hope it will make jupyter fix "-m" on windows for them because that's a blocker for beginners.

If you are not already using "-m", start now. It solves a lot of different problems with running python cli programs.

E.G: instead of running "black" or "pylint", do "python -m black" or "python -m pylint". Or course you may want to chose a specific version of python, so "python3.8 -m black" for unix, or "py -3.8 -m black" on windows.

To test out __pypackages__, give a try to the pdm project: https://github.com/pdm-project/pdm

At last, some other tools that I wish people knew more about that solves packaging issues:

- pyflow (https://github.com/David-OConnor/pyflow): it's a package manager like poetry, but it also install whatever python you want like pyenv. Except it provides the binary, no need to compile anything. It's a young project, but I wish it succeeds because it's really a great concept.

- shiv (shiv.readthedocs.io/): it leverage the concept of zipapp, meaning the ability that python has to execute python inside a zip file. It's a successor to pex. Basically it lets you bundle your code + all deps from virtualenv inside a zip, like a Java .war file. You can then run the resulting zip, a .pyz file, like if it was a regular .py file. It will unzip on the first run automatically. It makes deployment almost as easy as with golang.

- nuitka (shiv.readthedocs.io/): take your code and all dependancies, turn them into C, and compiles it. Although it does require a bit of setup, since it needs headers and a compiler, it results reliably in a standalone compiled executable that will run on the same architecture with no need for anything else. Also it will speed up your Python program, up to 4 times.