forgefed VS amfora

If you don't mind me asking since you're here: will you be implementing ForgeFed in Gitness [0]? My sense is that federation is our best hope for breaking GitHub's network effects, and I'd love to see more projects like yours join the protocol.

[0] https://forgefed.org/

From the comments, Forgejo is also already working on implementing ForgeFed, an ActivityPub extension specifically designed for software forges [0]. Judging from the issue, it looks like they're well on their way [1].

I have to say, I'm not super into the idea of social media, but this is a use for federation I approve of wholeheartedly. The friction of having to create accounts on X forges (where X is the number of projects that self-host GitLab) is a huge moat for GitHub, and federation could solve that very handily and create an environment where FOSS projects can feasibly host their own code away from Microsoft's control without horribly inconveniencing everyone who wants to participate.

[0] https://forgefed.org/

[1] https://codeberg.org/forgejo/forgejo/issues/59

> I agree that e-mail is not perfect, but... how is GitHub better?

Please look at my comment again. I prefer email to locked in forges.

> Devs like new shiny toys, and e-mails are old technology

There is one aspect where such forges have an advantage over email - a better user experience. Aerc and the likes all good - but Github and others provide a good user experience over a tool that everyone uses - the web browser.

> we should have something better than e-mail in 2023

We really should have something better than email. I'm saying this as someone who operates a personal mail server and a bunch of desktop services for it. It's really hard to get the setup correct.

In that context, it's worth looking at forgefed (https://forgefed.org/). It's a protocol for federating forges like Gitea and Gitlab. It's built on top of ActivityPub - which behaves a bit like email (it has inboxes and outboxes for every user). From the spec, it seems like pull requests happen by sending patches to the destination forge.

> Nobody takes the time to try the e-mail workflow (even though it's really two git commands)

Email workflow seems simple. But there are two things that make it complicated:

1. The patches don't specify the commits they apply to. It's simply assumed that they apply to the head of the main branch. The commits have to be carefully rebased on the main branch before sending the patches. It could otherwise lead to conflicts and a lot of wasted time.

2. Each commit/patch is send as a single email. Developers usually make frequent commits when they develop. Such patches can be confusing and hellish to review. A sane patchset requires the developers to edit the commit history, usually using interactive rebases. Each commit should contain a single feature and shouldn't break the build.

I consider both the above to be good development practices and follow them even on my personal projects. However, this is an additional barrier to entry. In fact, this may be a bigger problem for many than setting up git for email.

Another interesting topic to look into is forge federation. Forgejo [0], the code forge on which Codeberg is based is one forge software that intends to federate their repositories between server instances over the network using ActivityPub protocol extensions such as ForgeFed [1] and F3 [2] specifications.

[0] https://forgejo.org

[1] https://forgefed.org

[2] https://lab.forgefriends.org/friendlyforgeformat

> If you want to look into people who disagree with you: https://forgefed.org/

Gemini is a joke. The main proponents like Drew Devault chuck a tantrum when browsers allow users to optionally show favicons https://github.com/makew0rld/amfora/issues/199

https://github.com/makew0rld/amfora/issues/199

You'll need a different web browser since Firefox and Chrome based Browsers all only support HTTP/HTTPS afaik. I suggest using deedum if you're on Android, if you're on windows I suggest installing this browser, it's a more or less simple graphical Browser written in C# so it should work. Just download the release zip and extract, you can probably go from there., if you're on Linux, I suggest Amfora it's a text based browser but it has served me well.

And that's the caveat with SourceHut and the current discussion around it. While I respect Drew and his work, he isn't exactly the most approachable person in OSS.

If you and several other people happen to have a hard requirement for a specific feature that he (or his buddy Simon) don't see fit for, you won't get that feature, even if you volunteer to implement and maintain it. The only thing you're left with is basically to fork SourceHut, host it yourself and maintain your feature all by yourself, dealing with continuously patching a very much still-in-development (and therefore ever changing) software. That is something you're probably not going to do, especially considering SourceHut's architecture and way of doing things.

SourceHut isn't exactly extensible/pluggable and hosting it as a one man show or even a small company becomes a huge PITA, as soon as you diverge from the holy grail that is Drew's way of doing things (Alpine, no containers, no good config management, no easy way to scale things, and the dedication to invest your blood and tears into maintaining this thing).

Hence I really cannot comprehend the current trend that is "let's all dump GitHub for this, and that, and SourceHut". So far, SourceHut really hasn't made an effort to prove itself worthy of the influx of OSS projects. And while I do see Drew commenting here, reassuring folks he won't ban anyone over any internet disagreement, reading the public mailing lists of the SourceHut repos doesn't really show much of a welcoming behavior either. I mean, he's the person behind what has become one of the most popular Gemini servers, and as soon as that was the case, he began threatening client apps to arbitrary block them for doing things that don't align with his values (in this case, [showing a favicon](https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/19...)). And the cabal of elite internet Amish, that have been on SourceHut since its early days and that makes a large portion of the platform, aren't that different either.

I do agree with GitHub being the wrong place for OSS projects, but I don't agree with SourceHut being the right one. At least for as long as it doesn't become obvious that its founder and the community around him has changed and started to genuinely appreciate people for the work they're doing, regardless of their own ideological beliefs.

I use Sway and I pay to host my code on SourceHut. I admire Drew and I think he is making invaluable contributions to FOSS.

That said, he has a history of... rash? impulsive? reactions to situations that might have been resolved with less bad blood if he had stepped away from the keyboard until he was less upset. The classic example is when he got upset about people wanting to unofficially add favicons to the Gemini protocol, and he threatened to blackhole any IP address which requests a favicon. https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/19...

I do not know if there is some specific recent event triggering vitriol, but the way this post is written, it sounds like Drew thinks it is resulting from less recent actions like the favicon threat.

In Drew's defense, he has made (limited) apologies and I do believe he is trying to do better. https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disas... has a note at the bottom, saying:

> I realize that my blog has been a source of a lot of negativity in the past, and I regret how harsh I've been with some of the projects I've criticised. I will make my arguments by example going forward: if I think we can do better, I'll do it better, instead of criticising those who are just earnestly trying their best.

But it is also true that many people will not be quick to forgive him, and some people never will. It will take him time to undo the negative image he has created with some people, but after seeing Linus Torvald's positive changes, I am optimistic that Drew can change for the better if he wants to, and help create a welcoming community for everyone. If he doesn't give up first.

amfora gemini client

Should be able to run a basic gemini client just fine, maybe even amfora?