fern VS opentofu

Lots of these have been popping up lately, they all seem really good.

https://buildwithfern.com/

Fern | https://buildwithfern.com | Founding Backend Engineer | $160k + equity | On-site NYC | Full-time

At Fern, we're creating the modern developer experience platform. We work with developer-focused companies to generate SDKs & API documentation. We're looking for a Founding Backend Engineer to help us scale with our users. You'll join a small team (3 of us) and will be a product owner who designs, builds, and ships weekly.

Learn more at https://www.buildwithfern.com/careers

Fern (YC W23) | Founding Engineer | New York City | $130k-$160k + 0.5-1.0% equity | Full Time | Open Source | https://buildwithfern.com

REST APIs underpin the internet but are still painful to work with. They are often untyped, unstandardized, and out-of-sync across multiple sources of truth. With Fern, we aim to bring great developer experiences to REST APIs.

Our stack is Next.js + Vercel, Express (Node.js) + FastAPI (Python), Postgres DB + Prisma ORM, and AWS CDK. We're open source: https://www.github.com/fern-api/fern

We closed a Seed this year from top-tier US investors, including Y Combinator, Abhinav Asthana (Postman CEO), Arash Ferdowsi (Dropbox co-founder), and Ian McCrystal (Stripe's Head of Docs).

Learn more: https://www.buildwithfern.com/careers

Thank you for your encouraging words and insights!

There are indeed popular DSLs and code to openapi solutions out there. Many of which are easy to plug in to the openapi-stack libraries btw!

I guess I personally always found it frustrating to try to control the generated OpenAPI output using additional tooling and ended up preferring yaml + a visualisation tool as the api design workflow. (e.g. swagger editor)

But something like https://buildwithfern.com, or using zod as substitute for json schema may indeed be worth a try as a step before emitting openapi.

Fern (YC W23) | Founding Engineer | New York City | $125k-$175k + equity | Full Time | Open Source | https://buildwithfern.com

REST APIs underpin the internet but are still painful to work with. They are often untyped, unstandardized, and out-of-sync across multiple sources of truth. With Fern, we aim to bring great developer experiences to REST APIs.

Our stack is Next.js + Vercel, Express (Node.js) + FastAPI (Python), Postgres DB + Prisma ORM, and AWS CDK.

We closed a Seed this year from top-tier US investors, including Y Combinator, Abhinav Asthana (Postman CEO), Arash Ferdowsi (Dropbox co-founder), and Ian McCrystal (Stripe's Head of Docs).

Apply by emailing [email protected]

Hi HN! Langfuse is OSS observability and analytics for LLM applications (repo: https://github.com/langfuse/langfuse, 2 min demo: https://langfuse.com/video; try it yourself: https://langfuse.com/demo)

Langfuse makes capturing and viewing LLM calls (execution traces) a breeze. On top of this data, you can analyze the quality, cost and latency of LLM apps.

When GPT-4 dropped, we started building LLM apps – a lot of them! [1, 2] But they all suffered from the same issue: it’s hard to assure quality in 100% of cases and even to have a clear view of user behavior. Initially, we logged all prompts/completions to our production database to understand what works and what doesn’t. We soon realized we needed more context, more data and better analytics to sustainably improve our apps. So we started building a homegrown tool.

Our first task was to track and view what is going on in production: what user input is provided, how prompt templates or vector db requests work, and which steps of an LLM chain fail. We built async SDKs and a slick frontend to render chains in a nested way. It’s a good way to look at LLM logic ‘natively’. Then we added some basic analytics to understand token usage and quality over time for the entire project or single users (pre-built dashboards).

Under the hood, we use the T3 stack (Typescript, NextJs, Prisma, tRPC, Tailwind, NextAuth), which allows us to move fast + it means it's easy to contribute to our repo. The SDKs are heavily influenced by the design of the PostHog SDKs [3] for stable implementations of async network requests. It was a surprisingly inconvenient experience to convert OpenAPI specs to boilerplate Python code and we ended up using Fern [4] here. We’re fans of Tailwind + shadcn/ui + tremor.so for speed and flexibility in building tables and dashboards fast.

Our SDKs run fully asynchronously and make network requests in the background. We did our best to reduce any impact on application performance to a minimum. We never block the main execution path.

We've made two engineering decisions we've felt uncertain about: to use a Postgres database and Looker Studio for the analytics MVP. Supabase performs well at our scale and integrates seamlessly into our tech stack. We will need to move to an OLAP database soon and are debating if we need to start batching ingestion and if we can keep using Vercel. Any experience you could share would be helpful!

Integrating Looker Studio got us to first analytics charts in half a day. As it is not open-source and does not work with our UI/UX, we are looking to switch it out for an OSS solution to flexibly generate charts and dashboards. We’ve had a look at Lightdash and would be happy to hear your thoughts.

We’re borrowing our OSS business model from Posthog/Supabase who make it easy to self-host with features reserved for enterprise (no plans yet) and a paid version for managed cloud service. Right now all of our code is available under a permissive license (MIT).

Next, we’re going deep on analytics. For quality specifically, we will build out model-based evaluations and labeling to be able to cluster traces by scores and use cases.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and discussion – we’ll be in the comments. Thanks!

[1] https://learn-from-ai.com/

[2] https://www.loom.com/share/5c044ca77be44ff7821967834dd70cba

[3] https://posthog.com/docs/libraries

[4] https://buildwithfern.com/

You can recommend it in what context, from openapi (as they claim https://github.com/fern-api/fern#starting-from-openapi ) or from their ... special ... definition schema?

For those wanting less talk, moar code: https://github.com/fern-api/fern-java/blob/0.4.2-rc3/example... -> https://github.com/fern-api/fern-java/blob/0.4.2-rc3/example...

I'm one of the builders of an open source project (buildwithfern.com) to improve client codegen. One of the learnings I've had is that the quality of OpenAPI specs varies widely (like really widely). We wrote a linter that suggests improvements to your OpenAPI before you run the code generators and that's been really helpful for generating idiomatic clients.

You can try Fern for free: https://buildwithfern.com

and more.

Hey!

> With OpenTofu exclusive features making such an early debut, is the intention to remain a superset of upstream Terraform functionality and spec, or allow OpenTofu to diverge and move in its own direction?

The intention is to let it diverge. There will surely be some amount of shared new features, but we're generally going our own way.

> Will you aim to stick to compatibility with Terraform providers/modules?

Yes.

Regarding providers, we might introduce some kind of superset protocol for providers at some point, for tofu-exclusive functionality, but we'll make sure to design it in a way where providers keep working with both Terraform and OpenTofu.

Regarding modules, this one will be more tricky, as there might Terraform languages features that aren't supported in OpenTofu and vice-versa. We have a proposal[0] to tackle this, and enable module authors to easily create modules with support for both, even when using some exclusive features of any one of them.

> Is the potential impact of community fragmentation on your mind as many commercial users who don’t care about open source ideology stick to the tried-and-true Hashicorp Terraform?

We've talked to a lot of people, and we've met many who see the license changes as a risk for them, while OpenTofu, with its open-source nature, is the less-risky choice. That includes large enterprises.

> Is there any intention to try and supplement the tooling around the core product to provide an answer to features like Terraform Cloud dashboard, sentinel policies and other things companies may want out of the product outside of the command line tool itself?

That's mostly covered by the companies sponsoring OpenTofu's development: Spacelift (I work here), env0, Scalr, Harness, Gruntworks.

[0]: https://github.com/opentofu/opentofu/issues/1328

Please remember to file in a calm and orderly fashion toward the exits and remember: IBM killed Centos for profit.

Terraform users can pick up their new alternative here:

https://opentofu.org/

and for those of you with Vault, you can find your new alternative here:

https://openbao.org/

OpenTofu v1.6

Note: New versions of Terraform will be placed under the BUSL license, but everything created before version 1.5.x stays open-source. OpenTofu is an open-source version of Terraform that will expand on Terraform's existing concepts and offerings. It is a viable alternative to HashiCorp's Terraform, being forked from Terraform version 1.5.6. OpenTofu retained all the features and functionalities that had made Terraform popular among developers while also introducing improvements and enhancements. OpenTofu is not going to have its own providers and modules, but it is going to use its own registry for them.

opentofu is solving this with proper state encryption support: https://github.com/opentofu/opentofu/issues/874

As with all other Linux Foundation and CNCF projects, OpenTofu is guided by the Technical Steering Committee(TSC), which works in open collaboration with the community on the development of new features, upgrades, bug fixes, etc. The current TSC consists of representatives from Harness, Spacelift, Scalr, Gruntworks, and env0.