faustgen-supercollider
pure-data
faustgen-supercollider | pure-data | |
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1 | 3 | |
29 | 8 | |
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2.7 | 0.0 | |
about 2 years ago | 6 days ago | |
CMake | C | |
GNU General Public License v3.0 only | GNU General Public License v3.0 or later |
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faustgen-supercollider
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Show HN: Glicol(Graph-Oriented Live Coding Language) and DSP Lib Written in Rust
> In Glicol, you can use different node directly as UGens and you can also define your own `meta` node in real-time,
That's cool!
FWIW, Mads has been working on a Faust UGen that can compile Faust code on the fly: https://github.com/madskjeldgaard/faustgen-supercollider
Also, there is an open-source implementation of Reaper's JSFX language: https://github.com/asb2m10/jsusfx. The Repo already contains Max and Pd objects. I have been thinking of contributing a SuperCollider UGen, but there are so many other things on my list :-)
pure-data
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Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI
> The other advantage is because these things were implemented in the 80s
Pd was developed in the mid 90s
> they are very computationally efficient
Not as efficient as it could be, though. For example, instead of proper SIMD instructions, the DSP perform routines only use manual loop unrolling, praying that the compiler will auto-vectorize it.
Finally, everything is single-threaded, leaving lots of performance on the table. FWIW, I have a PR for an asynchronous task API (https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/1357) and also a branch for multi-threaded DSP (https://github.com/Spacechild1/pure-data/tree/multi-threadin...).
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Show HN: Glicol(Graph-Oriented Live Coding Language) and DSP Lib Written in Rust
FWIW, Pd and Max/MSP always had sample-level control in the sense that subpatches can be reblocked. For example, if you put a [block~ 1] object in a Pd subpatch, the process function will be called for every sample, so you can have single-sample feedback paths. Pd also has the [fexpr~] object which allows users to write FIR and IIR filters in a simple expression-syntax. Finally, Max/MSP offers the very powerful [gen~] object. You can check it out for inspiration (if you haven't already).
Pd (and Max/MSP) also allow to upsample/resample subpatches, which is important for minimizing aliasing (caused by certain kinds of processing, such as distortion).
Pd also uses the reblocking mechanism to implement FFT processing. The output of [rfft~] is just an ordinary signal that can be manipulated by the usual signal objects. You can also write the output to a table, manipulate it in the control domain with [bang~], and then read it back in the next DSP tick. IMO, this is a very powerful and elegant approach. SuperCollider, on the other hand, only supports a single global blocksize and samplerate which prevents temporary upsampling + anti-aliasing, severly limits single-sample feedback and leads to a rather awkward FFT implementation (you need dedicated PV_* objects for the most basic operations, such as addition and multiplication).
Another thing to think about is multi-threaded DSP. With Supernova, Tim Blechmann miraculously managed to retrofit multi-threading onto scsynth. Max/MSP offers some support for multi-threading (IIRC, top level patches and poly~ instances run in parallel). Recently, I have been working on adding multi-threading to Pd (it's working, but still very much experimental): https://github.com/Spacechild1/pure-data/tree/multi-threadin.... If you design an audio engine in 2022, multi-threading should be considered from the start; you don't have to implement it yet, but at least leave the door open to do it at a later stage.
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I'm not sure how far you want to go with Glicol. I guess for the typical Algorave live coder all these things are probably not important. But if you want Glicol to be a flexible modern audio engine/library, you will have to think about FFT, upsampling, single-sample feedback, multi-processing etc. at some point. My advice is to not leave these things as an afterthought; you should at least think about it from the start while designing your engine - if you want to avoid some of the mistakes that other existing audio engines made. This is just a word of "warning" from someone having spent countless of hours in Pd and SuperCollider source code :-)
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How a Single Line of Code Made a 24-Core Server Slower Than a Laptop
Great write up!
What I like about Pd is that you can freely reblock and resample any subpatch. Want some section with single-sample-feedback? Just put a [block~ 1]. You can also increase the blocksize. Usually, this is done for upsampling and FFT processing. Finally, reblocking can be nested, meaning that you can reblock to 1024 samples and inside have another subpatch running at 1 sample blocksize.
SuperCollider, on the other hand, has a fixed global blocksize and samplerate, which I think is one of its biggest limitations. (Needless to say, there are many things it does better than Pd!)
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In the last few days I have been experimenting with adding multi-threading support to Pd (https://github.com/Spacechild1/pure-data/tree/multi-threadin...). With the usual blocksize of 64 sample, you can definitely observe the scheduling overhead in the CPU meter. If you have a few (heavy-weight) subpatches running in parallel, the overhead is neglible. But for [clone] with a high number of (light-weight) copies, the overhead becomes rather noticable. In my quick tests, reblocking to 256 samples already reduces the overhead significantly, at the cost of increased latency, of course.
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Also, in my plugin host for Pd/Supercollider (https://git.iem.at/pd/vstplugin/) I have a multi-threading and bridging/sandboxing option. If the plugin itself is rather lightweight and the blocksize is small, the scheduling overhead becomes quite noticable. In Pd you can just put [vstplugin~] in a subpatch + [block~]. For the SuperCollider version I have added a "reblock" argument to process the plugin at a higher blocksize, at the cost of increased latency.
What are some alternatives?
egui_baseview_test_vst2 - Barebones egui_baseview vst2 plugin with basic parameter control
ixilang - A live coding language. An extension to SuperCollider, currently Cocoa only.
ddwChucklib-livecode - A live-coding interface for chucklib objects
hvcc - The heavy hvcc compiler for Pure Data patches.
egui_node_graph - Build your node graph applications in Rust, using egui
scheme-for-pd - Pure Data port of the Scheme For Max external, providing an embedded S7 Scheme/Lisp interpreter for scripting and live-coding Pure Data in Scheme Lisp.
vst-rs - VST 2.4 API implementation in rust. Create plugins or hosts. Previously rust-vst on the RustDSP group.
Camomile - An audio plugin with Pure Data embedded that allows to load and to control patches
PdVst - PdVst is an extension that allows Pd patches (and pd.exe programm) to run as VST plugins (Windows 32/64 only).