exception-handling VS interface-types

Interesting article, thanks!

Notes on the issues mentioned there:

* The need for a manual shadow stack: This is fixed in WasmGC (in the same way it works in JS, as the link mentions).

* Lack of try-catch: This is fixed by the Wasm exception handling proposal, which has already shipped in browsers, https://github.com/WebAssembly/exception-handling/blob/main/...

* Null checks: Mostly fixed by WasmGC. The spec defines non-nullable local types, and VMs can use the techniques the article mentions to optimize them using signals (Wizard does, for example).

* Class initialization: This is a difficult problem, as the article says. J2Wasm and Binaryen are working to optimize it through static analysis at the toolchain level. Here is a recent PR I wrote that makes progress there: https://github.com/WebAssembly/binaryen/pull/6061

* The vtable overhead issue the article mentions may be a problem. I'm not aware of good measurements on it, through. There are some ideas on post-MVP solutions for method dispatch that might help, but nothing concrete yet.

* Checks for null and trapping: There has been discussion of variants on the GC instructions that throw instead of trap. Measurements, however, have not shown it to be a big problem atm, so it is low priority.

The author is right that stack walking, signals, and memory control are important areas that could help here.

Overall with WasmGC and exceptions we are in a pretty good place for Java as emitted by J2Wasm today: it is usually faster than J2CL which compiles Java to JavaScript. But there is definitely room for improvement.

It uses https://github.com/WebAssembly/exception-handling/blob/master/proposals/exception-handling/Exceptions.md which is actually supported by all major browsers already.

Yep, you're right. It's also more than just the DOM, it's web APIs in general, such as fetch, audio, webgl/webgpu, etc. WASM still needs GC, exceptions, and WASI to be able to fully interop with any host without any of the current limitations. This'll take a few years. I'm looking forward to the future in which I will be shipping WASM-only web apps to my users.

Its a part of the wasm plan to support gc https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc exceptions https://github.com/WebAssembly/exception-handling

As of Node.js 17, the v8 JavaScript engine has been updated to v9.5. The changes in this release are primarily aimed at expanding internationalization for dates and calendars as well as for the output of time zones. It also implements the WebAssembly Exception Handling proposal, designed to reduce overhead compared to current JavaScript-based workarounds.

Agreed, although at some point in a not very far feature most of those missing features will resolved. So in my mind is just a matter of time. The Wasm Community group is doing an awesome work on that :)

Here are a few examples of what needs move forward in Wasm:

* [1] Wasm Exceptions Handling: Right now Wasm is missing a way to handle exceptions natively (C++ programs can only compile to Wasm using the asyncify or longjmp/setjmp tricks via Js try/catch)

* [2] Wasm GC: Wasm Binary files are quite big (specially in interpreted languages). This is partially caused by the GC being included in the Binary itself. The GC proposal will solve this while also providing faster execution.

* [3] Wasm 64-bit Memory: currently Wasm can only operate with 32-bit data. In some contexts you may want you operate with more than 4GB of memory (for example, when operating over terabytes of data). The 64-bit memory proposal will solve that.

[1]: https://github.com/WebAssembly/exception-handling

Some things that might greatly increase wasm usage and overall tooling:

1) Tools that run docker containers and serverless function services (like AWS lambda) to support providing a .wasm files instead

2) Garbage collection in the runtime to make GC languages easier to port to wasm

3) Dynamically typed languages (NodeJS, Python, Ruby) being able to compile to webassembly directly instead of porting the runtime to webassembly and then running the code through the runtime. This is a big ask though, basically needs to redesign the runtime completely

4) wasm-DOM bindings will enable other languages to do HTML rendering which will require new web frameworks for every language that wants to take over the space from JS. This will lead to (even more) fragmentation of the web ecosystem

5) A new wasm-first SDK (unrelated to the DOM) for building cross platform applications. I can see this taking off only if it is built-into the browsers and backed by some standards committee, so not very likely I think

6) Something like the Interface Types proposal ( https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/main/pro... ) becomes a thing allowing wasm programs to be consisted of modules written in several different languages and being able to call said modules with low or 0 runtime performance hit (and of course, no compilation to multiple CPU archs). So much of programming ecosystems are locked to specific languages (like data science with python) when there is little technical reason for it be like that.

AFAIK GC is irrelevant for "direct DOM access", you would rather want to hop into the following rabbit hole:

- reference types: https://github.com/WebAssembly/reference-types/blob/master/p...

- interface types (inactive): https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/main/pro...

- component model: https://github.com/WebAssembly/component-model

If this looks like a mess, that's because it is. Compared to that, the current solution to go through a Javascript shim doesn't look too bad IMHO.

I'm not really optimistic that particular aspect will get much improvement. Many people expected interface types to come save the day, but after a looong stagnation that proposal has been archived (for now) in favour of component types, which has much less potential for performance gains.

Really good questions. Unfortunately, most of the issues I found back then were fundamental ones. I've seen that Wasm has deprecated "Interface Types" and is now working on the "Component Model". But even then, as far as I understand that would only avoid the serialization and deserialization steps, and you would still need to copy complex types. It will be more performant, but I don't think it would be enough for Tremor either.

wasm doesn't know anything about the outside world on purpose. This allows it to be used in other domains. For direct access to the DOM et al, interface types are being developed. It's a non-trivial problem to interoperate with a dynamically typed GC'd language from any statically typed no-GC language that can compile to wasm.

You may want to look into WASM interface types, which is defining what amounts to am IDL for WASM and different languages have common calling conventions: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/08/webassembly-interface-type...

I don’t know if there’s a better intro article. I believe this is the current iteration of the proposal: https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/main/pro...

Yes, and if I'm not mistaken, this is the RFC

I see no reason why not. See the interface types proposal for a proposed solution.

Wanted to get thoughts from the Rust experts on this - the author of the Yew framework seems to think that Web Assembly Interface Types (https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/master/proposals/interface-types/Explainer.md) will allow Yew to eventually become faster than Vue, React, Angular, etc. Is there general consensus on this in the Rust community? The prospect of mixing Rust (for the performance critical pieces) with TS on the front end doesn't seem super appealing to me.