community VS rules_docker

A list of adopters (many of which are hosting providers) is here: https://github.com/buildpacks/community/blob/main/ADOPTERS.m...

Many comments here point out how difficult it is to manage a separate dependency stack for each container when you use Dockerfiles to build them. This problem is just as difficult, time-intensive, and security-critical for microservice apps running on K8s as it is for CLI tools and graphical apps.

Worth pointing out that there is an incubating CNCF project that tries to solve this problem by forgoing Dockerfiles entirely: Cloud Native Buildpacks (https://buildpacks.io)

CNB defines safe seams between OCI image layers so that can be replaced out of order, directly on any Docker registry (only JSON requests), and en-mass. This means you can, e.g., instantly update all of your OS packages for your 1000+ containers without running any builds, as long as you use an LTS distribution with strong ABI promises (e.g., Ubuntu 20.04). Most major cloud vendors have quietly adopted it, especially for function builds: https://github.com/buildpacks/community/blob/main/ADOPTERS.m...

You might recognize "buildpacks" from Heroku, and in fact the project was started several years ago in the CNCF by the folks who maintained the Heroku and Cloud Foundry buildpacks in the pre-Dockerfile era.

[Disclaimer: I'm one of the founders of the project, on the VMware (formerly Cloud Foundry) side.]

My company uses Bazel's rules docker to build our images: https://github.com/bazelbuild/rules_docker

They're pretty great and have a lot of the caching and parallelism benefits mentioned in the post for free out of the box, along with determinism (which Docker files don't have because you can run arbitrary shell commands). Our backend stack is also built with Bazel so we get a nice tight integration to build our images that is pretty straightforward.

We've also built some nice tooling around this to automatically put our maven dependencies into different layers using Bazel query and buildozer. Since maven deps don't change often we get a lot of nice caching advantages.

I've seen rules_docker is looking for maintainers here ; Does this mean it doesn't use it that much internally? If so, how do they go about using other services e.g docker-compose for running external services e.g database?

Did you mean this one? https://github.com/bazelbuild/rules_docker

I was very interested in this Bazel-based way of building containers but its README page says "it is on minimal life support," which does not inspire confidence. How's your experience using it?

As others have said docker in docker or a separate build server are your best options using docker. You can also use Bazel (which doesn't require the docker daemon) to build docker images which will build deterministic images every time due to not incorporating the timestamp: https://github.com/bazelbuild/rules_docker

There's some BazelCon talks about people doing similar stuff but not actually open sourcing their code.

P.S. if you use rules_docker please feel free to open a PR to add your company to our README: https://github.com/bazelbuild/rules_docker/#adopters

The docker utility isn't the only way to build and run containers. There's also cri-o, podman, and crun among others for running containers. For building there is podman again, Jib for Java applications, and bazel plus many others. The docker approach of using a client to connect to a daemon required to run as root has turned out to be slow and insecure.

During the last 3 years I've had the pleasure of using Bazel's rules_docker to generate all my container images (https://github.com/bazelbuild/rules_docker).

In a nutshell, rules_docker is a set of build rules for the Bazel build system (https://bazel.build). What's pretty nice about these rules is that they don't rely on a Docker daemon. They are rules that directly construct image tarballs that you can either load into your local Docker daemon or push to a registry.

What's nice about this approach is that image generation works on any operating system. For example, even on a Mac or Windows system that doesn't have Docker installed, you're able to build Linux containers. They are also fully reproducible, meaning that you often don't need to upload layers when pushing (either because they haven't changed, or because some colleague/CI job already pushed those layers).

I guess rules_docker works fine for a variety of programming languages. I've mainly used it with Go, though.