pivot VS redux-essentials-example-app

We can construct our apps in a way that is headless, where the app itself works without needing to render anything to the DOM. This is what I'm doing with the Pivot framework. An app is created without anchoring to a DOM element, like this:

The main benefit for me is testing. For example here I'm integration testing the app inside Vitest, so integration tests take just a few milliseconds and can be debugged much more easily in the IDE.

I've done something similar. I love redux, but RTK is absolutely overkill and tightly couples your business logic to the framework. I ended up creating my own createSlice function and side-effects services: https://github.com/andyjessop/pivot/tree/main/packages/lib/slice

You're right, it is related. But I think that Flux- and ELM-like architectures are making it even worse by forcing any "external" interaction to became the gap. Look how they suffer when it comes to executing any async operation like network request. Initially we have this relatively simple framework, but then we had to add "Middleware" to just run network request (which is a good example of the Remainder issue). I love the idea behind these architectures, which makes logic more predictable and testing way easier. I even was using them by myself. But now they looks like something turned inside out for me. I believe we could do better. I'm finishing my proposal right now. It will take couple more weeks to edit and translate it, but soon I'll show what I mean.

Hi, I maintain Redux and wrote most of our docs (including our current tutorials).

Can you give some details on which parts of our docs you feel are "incomprehensible"? I'm curious which specific pages you've been looking at, and for what purpose.

We've tried to organize the docs using the "Documentation System" approach described at [0]: Tutorials for teaching step-by-step, Explanations and How-To guides for specific topics, and References for API details.

Generally we want people to go through our "Redux Essentials" tutorial [1] as the primary way to learn how to use Redux correctly. It teaches "modern Redux" patterns with Redux Toolkit as the standard way to write Redux logic (including RTK Query for handling data fetching), and React-Redux hooks in components.

I'm genuinely interested in feedback on what explanations aren't clear and how we can improve things!

[0] https://documentation.divio.com/

[1] https://redux.js.org/tutorials/essentials/part-1-overview-co...

https://redux.js.org/tutorials/essentials/part-1-overview-concepts (covers how to use Redux Toolkit and RTK Query)