SyncedStore VS cr-sqlite

This article has been quite the inspiration for many projects and progress on this front. I think we're seeing more and more developments around CRDTs and local-first frameworks / applications.

I'm working on a few projects in this area:

- https://www.typecell.org - Notion meets Notebook-style live programming for TypeScript / React

- https://www.blocknotejs.org - a rich text editor built on TipTap / Prosemirror that supports Yjs for local-first collaboration

- https://syncedstore.org - a wrapper around Yjs for easier development

In my experience so far, some things get more complicated when building a local-first application, and some things get a lot easier. What gets easier is that once you've modeled and implemented the data-layer (which does require you to rethink / unlearn a few principles), you don't need to worry about data-fetching, errors etc. as much as in a regular "API-based" app.

Another interesting video I recommend on this topic is about Linear's "Sync Engine" which employs some of the local-first techniques as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo2m3jaJixU

Hi! Great questions :)

First of all, SyncedStore does not implement any CRDT algorithms. Credits for this go to Yjs [1] (and its author Kevin), which it uses as underlying CRDT.

Yjs and Automerge are (afaik) the two most commonly used CRDT implementations. Both have their pros and cons, but Yjs has focused a lot on performance [2].

Automerge has a bit friendlier "Immer style" [3] API. I'm not too familiar with @localfirst/state, but it seems to add a Redux style API on top of Automerge.

My approach with SyncedStore was really to provide an API on top of Yjs that's as simple as possible to use in React / Vue / Svelte or plain JS app. I.e.: only use a single React Hook to observe changes, and use regular Javascript assigments to update values. The API is inspired mostly by Reactive Programming libraries such as MobX [4] (from the same author as Immer).

Hope you're still following along :) Maybe it helps to compare the TODO-MVC applications, as both SyncedStore (https://github.com/YousefED/SyncedStore/tree/main/examples) and @localfirst/state (https://github.com/local-first-web/state/tree/main/examples/...) have implemented these as examples!

[1]: https://github.com/yjs/yjs

I’m exploring the ideas (an easy to use framework to build local-first [1] apps) in my library Reactive-CRDT (https://github.com/yousefed/reactive-crdt). Feedback welcome!

All credit for the underlying tech to YJS, which has been amazing as mentioned by others in this thread.

[1]: https://www.inkandswitch.com/local-first.html

I'm a happy user of https://github.com/vlcn-io/cr-sqlite/

If you're interested in this, here are some related projects that all take slightly different approaches:

- LiteSync directly competes with Marmot and supports DDL sync, but is closed source commercial (similar to SQLite EE): https://litesync.io

- dqlite is Canonical's distributed SQLite that depends on c-raft and kernel-level async I/O: https://dqlite.io

- cr-sqlite is a Rust-based loadable extension that adds CRDT changeset generation and reconciliation to SQLite: https://github.com/vlcn-io/cr-sqlite

Slightly related but not really (no multi writer, no C-level SQLite API or other restrictions):

- comdb2 (Bloombergs multi-homed RDMS using SQLite as the frontend)

- rqlite: RDMS with HTTP API and SQLite as the storage engine, used for replication and strong consistency (does not scale writes)

- litestream/LiteFS: disaster recovery replication

- liteserver: active read-only replication (predecessor of LiteSync)

Theory is great, but how can we apply this in practice? Instead of starting from 0, and writing a CRDT, let's try and leverage an existing project to do the heavy lifting. My choice is crSQLITE, an extension for SQLite to support CRDT merging of databases. Under the hood, the extension creates tables to track changes and allow inserting into an event log for merging states of separated peers.

Also https://github.com/vlcn-io/cr-sqlite/ which is SQLite + CRDTs

Runs/syncs to the browser too which is just lovely.

If you need multiple writers and can handle eventual correctness, you should really be using cr-sqlite[1]. It'll allow you to have any number of workers/clients that can write locally within the same process (so no network overhead) but still guarantee converge to the same state.

[1] https://github.com/vlcn-io/cr-sqlite

I am fully on the offline-first bandwagon after starting to use cr-sqlite (https://vlcn.io), which works similar to ElectricSQL.

I thought the bundle size of wasm-sqlite would be prohibitive, but it's surprisingly quick to download and boot. Reducing network reliance solves so many problems and corner-cases in my web app. Having access to local data makes everything very snappy too - the user experience is much better. Even if the user's offline data is wiped by the browser (offline storage limits are a bit of a minefield), it is straightforward to get all synced changes back from the server.

I didn't know that. Especially the first approach sounds interesting to me, because as far as I know the transactions of Yjs seem to be a problem on heavily changing documents. https://github.com/vlcn-io/cr-sqlite#approach-1-history-free... Thanks!

I wonder how this compares to https://vlcn.io?

The short ask: Anyone know of any projects that bring incremental view maintenance to SQLite?

The why:

Applications are usually read heavy. It is a sad state of affairs that, for these kinds of apps, we don't put more work on the write path to allow reads to benefit.

Would the whole No-SQL movement ever even have been a thing if relational databases had great support for materialized views that updated incrementally? I'd like to think not.

And more context:

I'm working to push the state of "functional relational programming" [1], [2] further forward. Materialized views with incremental updates are key to this. Bringing them to SQLite so they can be leveraged one the frontend would solve this whole quagmire of "state management libraries." I've been solving the data-sync problem in SQLite (https://vlcn.io/) and this piece is one of the next logical steps.

If nobody knows of an existing solution, would love to collaborate with someone on creating it.

[1] - https://github.com/papers-we-love/papers-we-love/blob/main/design/out-of-the-tar-pit.pdf