Main VS runtimelab

(merged) ScoopInstaller/Main #4757 kubescape: Update url and binary naming

As I see it, part of the drive behind tools like Scoop is to overcome the limitations of the binary-shipping strategy common to Windows developers. They are successful at this, I agree, but only partially successful. They come from the tradition of programs like Ninite, which were explicitly built as ways to make the binary approach suck less than it did before.

I see the success of these programs as essentially stemming from the insertion of user interests in the form of a maintainer-like process. Sure, they're still working with the binaries, but the actual process of installing and managing these binaries is controlled by users, for users: https://github.com/ScoopInstaller/Main/tree/master/bucket

This means that you get moderation and in many cases modification to the behavior of the program. In a freeware environment like Windows that's full of shitware, at the very least you can in many cases strip out the ads. That's absolutely not nothing, but at the end of the day it comes from a group of user-maintainers stepping up and saying to developers that no, you cannot simply do whatever you want on my system with your software. That's ... sort of the whole point of a software distribution, in the Linux world!

When I want the latest version of a CLI tool on Linux, I simply `pacman -S package`. That's it; one command. I don't see how it could be any simpler or better than that, and on top of that I'm getting the benefits of moderation and integration with the rest of my system. Perhaps you are emphasizing latest version here, and hinting that you don't get that on Linux distros? That depends entirely on the distro; a software distribution is (roughly) a collection of user interests. An Arch user wants (and gets) the latest versions of all upstream software. A Debian user does not want this or see constant updating to the latest version as an advantage, so that's not what they get.

Here is the definition: https://github.com/ScoopInstaller/Main/blob/master/bucket/avr-gcc.json

Those are all automated by the auto-update script.

Check Merged PRs https://github.com/ScoopInstaller/Main/pulls?q=is%3Apr+sort%... and you will see that the last non-bot one was merged 17 days ago.

There was a "green thread" experiment for dotnet a while ago, here is the conclusion: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

Experiment result write-up: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/blob/e69dda51c7d796b812...

TLDR: The green threads experiment was a failure as it found (expected and obvious) issues that the Java applications are now getting to enjoy, joining their Go colleagues, while also requiring breaking changes. It, however, gave inspiration to subsequent re-examination of current async/await implementation and whether it can be improved by moving state machine generation and execution away from IL completely to runtime. It was a massive success as evidenced by preliminary overhead estimations in the results.

Yeah, it kind of is. There are quite a few of experiments that are conducted to see if they show promise in the prototype form and then are taken further for proper integration if they do.

Unfortunately, object stack allocation was not one of them even though DOTNET_JitObjectStackAllocation configuration knob exists today, enabling it makes zero impact as it almost never kicks in. By the end of the experiment[0], it was concluded that before investing effort in this kind of feature becomes profitable given how a lot of C# code is written, there are many other lower hanging fruits.

To contrast this, in continuation to green threads experiment, a runtime handled tasks experiment[1] which moves async state machine handling from IL emitted by Roslyn to special-cased methods and then handling purely in runtime code has been a massive success and is now being worked on to be integrated in one of the future version of .NET (hopefully 10?)

[0] https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/issues/11192

[1] https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/blob/feature/async2-exp...

Unlike these folks from dotnet, which tested directly on ASP for real workload

  https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398?darkschemeovr=1

[1] https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

The only way to avoid it is to not build on top of Java or not adding any features on top of Java.

> To give another example with C#, there has been a lot of recent discussion about finding potential alternatives to their async-await concurrency model. They cite the level of effort it takes to maintain the async await style code and the costs that come from this.

I had a very different take-away. They did PoC with virtual threads and decided it's not worth the switch now and async-await that they have is good enough.

https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

> Some of the languages it gets compared too aren't even that old yet.

C# is old enough to drink and Scala just had its 20th birthday this week :)

It was tried and the dotnet team decided to drop it: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

Technical details here: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/blob/feature/green-thre...

Just last month .NET ended a green threading experiment, mainly because the overhead it adds to FFI was too high:

https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

Rust had green threads until late 2014, and they were removed because of their impact on performance.

Everyone has done the basic research: green threading is a convenient abstraction that comes with certain performance trade offs. It doesn't work for the kind of profile that Rust is trying to target.