Go with PHP

This page summarizes the projects mentioned and recommended in the original post on news.ycombinator.com

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  • FrameworkBenchmarks

    Source for the TechEmpower Framework Benchmarks project

    Sure.

    1. SQLC is little more than a template generator for Prepared Statements wrapped in a class. [https://www.php.net/manual/en/mysqli.quickstart.prepared-sta...]. It's not exactly a mind bending or time saving tool.

    2. There are multiple OpenAPI generators for PHP, in fact, they existed from nearly the start of the OpenAPI protocol (formerly Swagger) when Go was barely a year old. Here's a current popular one: https://openapi-generator.tech/docs/generators/php/]

    3. PHP also, (unsurprisingly given the origination point of the spec) has many GraphQL implementations that support any database driver over ODBC, key-value stores, or even flat files. Here's one that plugs into Laravel [https://lighthouse-php.com/]

    4. PHP has many mature, modern embedded KV store options... but it's also had one in the standard lib since years before Go even existed, or the concept of KV stores was even popular. [https://www.php.net/manual/en/class.splobjectstorage.php].

    On your non-numbered points...

    Go and PHP are fairly similar in raw processing speed since the JIT was added to PHP. However raw number crunching is rarely realistic when most applications are going to be using databases, stores, etc. So why not look at a benchmark of popular frameworks in both languages - which shows, again that the two are fairly similar in performance. [https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r21&l=z...]

    PHP has also had types for about 4 years now. It's not statically typed, but that's a preference, not a pro/con situation.

    Built-in formatting is also a preference, not a pro/con situation. Many developers strongly dislike languages like Go and Python for this.

    PHP has had one of the most powerful and useful package management ecosystems in the entire open source world since composer mostly replaced PEAR nearly a decade ago. It also has mature and well loved testing tooling. Neither of which are built in, because why would you need to build in tools that the community already creates and maintains for free?

    I don't know what "bugs" you faced in the PHP stdlib, but I will concede that it is painful to use. Most of the stdlib is little more than a wrapper around C functions of the same name, and they inherit the frustration of using those C functions.

    Laravel does allow you to write things by hand. You can also just define them ahead of time and have the Migrations, Models, Controllers, Views, Transformers and more generated for you automatically. [https://blueprint.laravelshift.com/]

    There you go, there's your links. But frankly, you didn't need them. There's little you mentioned that's unique to Go at all, you just named a bunch of things that have become popular tools for most modern languages still being actively developed. I'm not sure why you think any of these things are Go-specific - some of them are maintained by the Go core team, like other newer languages have started doing, but that's it.

  • phel-lang

    Phel is a functional programming language that compiles to PHP. A Lisp dialect inspired by Clojure and Janet.

  • WorkOS

    The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS. The APIs are flexible and easy-to-use, supporting authentication, user identity, and complex enterprise features like SSO and SCIM provisioning.

  • Platform

    Qbix Platform for powering Social Apps (http://qbix.com/platform) (by Qbix)

    For a framework that is radically different but also PHP-native (since PHP 5), would you like to spend an hour playing with https://github.com/Qbix/Platform ?

    If you do, please share your experience in a comment. I’d love to hear it. I architected this framework over the last decade :)

  • frankenphp

    🧟 The modern PHP app server

  • termwind

    🍃 In short, it's like Tailwind CSS, but for the PHP command-line applications.

  • cms

    The core Laravel CMS Composer package

    If you're looking for a great CMS and were bitten by WordPress back in the day, you should take a look at Statamic (https://statamic.com)

    It's a Laravel package and it's the best CMS I've ever used (from a dev perspective). v4 just dropped the other day

  • twill

    Twill is an open source CMS toolkit for Laravel that helps developers rapidly create a custom admin console that is intuitive, powerful and flexible. Chat with us on Discord at https://discord.gg/cnWk7EFv8R.

    PHP has a lot of top tier CMSes. IMHO bunch of them are even better than Statamic. Craft CMS (https://craftcms.com/) is a lot more mature database based CMS. Kirby (https://getkirby.com/) is better at flat-file and has a lot better admin interface. Twill (https://twillcms.com/) is better integrated in Laravel and is fully open-source. Statamic mostly feels like it's sitting besides Laravel and they call themselves Laravel based for marketing.

  • InfluxDB

    Power Real-Time Data Analytics at Scale. Get real-time insights from all types of time series data with InfluxDB. Ingest, query, and analyze billions of data points in real-time with unbounded cardinality.

  • Kirby

    Kirby's core application folder

    PHP has a lot of top tier CMSes. IMHO bunch of them are even better than Statamic. Craft CMS (https://craftcms.com/) is a lot more mature database based CMS. Kirby (https://getkirby.com/) is better at flat-file and has a lot better admin interface. Twill (https://twillcms.com/) is better integrated in Laravel and is fully open-source. Statamic mostly feels like it's sitting besides Laravel and they call themselves Laravel based for marketing.

  • CraftCMS

    Build bespoke content experiences with Craft. (by craftcms)

    PHP has a lot of top tier CMSes. IMHO bunch of them are even better than Statamic. Craft CMS (https://craftcms.com/) is a lot more mature database based CMS. Kirby (https://getkirby.com/) is better at flat-file and has a lot better admin interface. Twill (https://twillcms.com/) is better integrated in Laravel and is fully open-source. Statamic mostly feels like it's sitting besides Laravel and they call themselves Laravel based for marketing.

  • RoadRunner

    🤯 High-performance PHP application server, process manager written in Go and powered with plugins

  • xss-payload-list

    🎯 Cross Site Scripting ( XSS ) Vulnerability Payload List

    Otherwise, only vague and unsubstantiated claims, which does not help PHP nor any other programming language or framework.

    [] https://github.com/payloadbox/xss-payload-list

  • ideas

    Discontinued Issues board used for Laravel internals discussions. (by laravel)

    I just don't get why people in php use lazy comparison in php when you know that "0e4"=="0e5" in php.

    and yes, Laravel use lazy comparison. And yes at least three bugs where caused by this use.

    see: https://github.com/laravel/ideas/issues/698 for why I'm a bit grumpy with php ecosystem

  • sqlc

    Generate type-safe code from SQL

    I left PHP for Go.

    - with http://sqlc.dev I don't have to write ORM or model code anymore.

    - with http://goa.design I can have well-documented API's that any team can generate a client for in any language. It also generates the HTTP JSON and gRPC servers for me so I can focus on my logic.

    - with https://github.com/99designs/gqlgen I can define GraphQL revolvers that play well with sqlc (any RDBMS) or I can use a key-value store.

    - speaking of key-value stores, Go allows them to be embedded! Even SQLite now has the https://litestream.io/ project to make it super simple to use a durable, always backed-up SQLite database even in a serverless context.

    Go is faster, uses less memory, and has really-well designed stdlib without all the bugs I used to face trying to use the PHP stdlib.

  • gqlgen

    go generate based graphql server library

    I left PHP for Go.

    - with http://sqlc.dev I don't have to write ORM or model code anymore.

    - with http://goa.design I can have well-documented API's that any team can generate a client for in any language. It also generates the HTTP JSON and gRPC servers for me so I can focus on my logic.

    - with https://github.com/99designs/gqlgen I can define GraphQL revolvers that play well with sqlc (any RDBMS) or I can use a key-value store.

    - speaking of key-value stores, Go allows them to be embedded! Even SQLite now has the https://litestream.io/ project to make it super simple to use a durable, always backed-up SQLite database even in a serverless context.

    Go is faster, uses less memory, and has really-well designed stdlib without all the bugs I used to face trying to use the PHP stdlib.

  • litestream

    Streaming replication for SQLite.

    I left PHP for Go.

    - with http://sqlc.dev I don't have to write ORM or model code anymore.

    - with http://goa.design I can have well-documented API's that any team can generate a client for in any language. It also generates the HTTP JSON and gRPC servers for me so I can focus on my logic.

    - with https://github.com/99designs/gqlgen I can define GraphQL revolvers that play well with sqlc (any RDBMS) or I can use a key-value store.

    - speaking of key-value stores, Go allows them to be embedded! Even SQLite now has the https://litestream.io/ project to make it super simple to use a durable, always backed-up SQLite database even in a serverless context.

    Go is faster, uses less memory, and has really-well designed stdlib without all the bugs I used to face trying to use the PHP stdlib.

  • goa

    🌟 Goa: Elevate Go API development! 🚀 Streamlined design, automatic code generation, and seamless HTTP/gRPC support. ✨

    I left PHP for Go.

    - with http://sqlc.dev I don't have to write ORM or model code anymore.

    - with http://goa.design I can have well-documented API's that any team can generate a client for in any language. It also generates the HTTP JSON and gRPC servers for me so I can focus on my logic.

    - with https://github.com/99designs/gqlgen I can define GraphQL revolvers that play well with sqlc (any RDBMS) or I can use a key-value store.

    - speaking of key-value stores, Go allows them to be embedded! Even SQLite now has the https://litestream.io/ project to make it super simple to use a durable, always backed-up SQLite database even in a serverless context.

    Go is faster, uses less memory, and has really-well designed stdlib without all the bugs I used to face trying to use the PHP stdlib.

  • lighthouse

    A framework for serving GraphQL from Laravel (by nuwave)

    Sure.

    1. SQLC is little more than a template generator for Prepared Statements wrapped in a class. [https://www.php.net/manual/en/mysqli.quickstart.prepared-sta...]. It's not exactly a mind bending or time saving tool.

    2. There are multiple OpenAPI generators for PHP, in fact, they existed from nearly the start of the OpenAPI protocol (formerly Swagger) when Go was barely a year old. Here's a current popular one: https://openapi-generator.tech/docs/generators/php/]

    3. PHP also, (unsurprisingly given the origination point of the spec) has many GraphQL implementations that support any database driver over ODBC, key-value stores, or even flat files. Here's one that plugs into Laravel [https://lighthouse-php.com/]

    4. PHP has many mature, modern embedded KV store options... but it's also had one in the standard lib since years before Go even existed, or the concept of KV stores was even popular. [https://www.php.net/manual/en/class.splobjectstorage.php].

    On your non-numbered points...

    Go and PHP are fairly similar in raw processing speed since the JIT was added to PHP. However raw number crunching is rarely realistic when most applications are going to be using databases, stores, etc. So why not look at a benchmark of popular frameworks in both languages - which shows, again that the two are fairly similar in performance. [https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r21&l=z...]

    PHP has also had types for about 4 years now. It's not statically typed, but that's a preference, not a pro/con situation.

    Built-in formatting is also a preference, not a pro/con situation. Many developers strongly dislike languages like Go and Python for this.

    PHP has had one of the most powerful and useful package management ecosystems in the entire open source world since composer mostly replaced PEAR nearly a decade ago. It also has mature and well loved testing tooling. Neither of which are built in, because why would you need to build in tools that the community already creates and maintains for free?

    I don't know what "bugs" you faced in the PHP stdlib, but I will concede that it is painful to use. Most of the stdlib is little more than a wrapper around C functions of the same name, and they inherit the frustration of using those C functions.

    Laravel does allow you to write things by hand. You can also just define them ahead of time and have the Migrations, Models, Controllers, Views, Transformers and more generated for you automatically. [https://blueprint.laravelshift.com/]

    There you go, there's your links. But frankly, you didn't need them. There's little you mentioned that's unique to Go at all, you just named a bunch of things that have become popular tools for most modern languages still being actively developed. I'm not sure why you think any of these things are Go-specific - some of them are maintained by the Go core team, like other newer languages have started doing, but that's it.

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