React is a fractal of bad design

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  • eureka

    Lucene-based search engine for your source code (by wisercoder)

    None of that is true in React hooks. The negative sentiment towards hooks that you see here is because it is weird and complicated. Want to see how much simpler code can get when you code without React or any such fat frameworks?

    Take a look:

    You just need to know JavaScript, HTML and CSS, not much else. The code is simple, and yet maintainable. No need for hooks, useEffect, useState, useMemo and all that crap.

  • reagent

    A minimalistic ClojureScript interface to React.js

    Reagent is peak React. All the good stuff without any of the hook and readability problems the article describes.

    No affiliation, happy user for years.

  • Klotho

    AWS Cloud-aware infrastructure-from-code toolbox [NEW]. Build cloud backends with Infrastructure-from-Code (IfC), a revolutionary technique for generating and updating cloud infrastructure. Try IfC with AWS and Klotho now (Now open-source)

  • vodon-player

    The Vodon esports review video player but accessible via the web

    If you use Typescript, take a look at:

    It's an additional layer on top of MobX that adds strong typing. I've been using it for an open source video annotation project and it's been amazing for keeping track of local state, cascading calculations of things.

    Here's my "models" directory for it if you want a taste of how it works:

  • joystick

    A full-stack JavaScript framework for building web apps and websites.

    Joystick [1] will let you go. No Stockholm syndrome. No lotion in the basket.


  • TanStack Query

    🤖 Powerful asynchronous state management, server-state utilities and data fetching for the web. TS/JS, React Query, Solid Query, Svelte Query and Vue Query.

    > When I build libraries for React, ironically, I don't really use hooks like useState, useReducer, etc. One of the best perks (and footguns) of managing your state outside of react is that you get to have full control over when a component should rerender.

    I don't understand this quote from Tanner. Aren't React hooks, like, the only way to tell a function React component (while inside of it) to re-render? And if you look at the code of, say, the useBaseQuery hook of tanstack-query, you will indeed find React's native hooks being used there [0].

    0 -

  • ReactFX

    Reactive event streams, observable values and more for JavaFX.

    You could also write that in many other languages like Clojure (with cljfx for FP fans), Python, Ruby, JavaScript, and of course Java. It would be less verbose if I used a library that better used Kotlin's features, but the goal here is that you can look up the JavaFX APIs from the link above (there are a couple of implied static imports).

    So not much different, but it demonstrates how the text property of the label is bound to a dynamically computed string which is in turn bound to an observable number. When the timer fires, the count increases and the label is recomputed. Everything is done that way so layout computations, for example, won't run unless the size of the label changes. And that's it - no need for VDOMs or prop drilling or state memoization or any of these other performance hacks.

    At some point you'll observe that this seems a like like "reactive programming" as used on the server side, and then might want to explore a library like ReactFX which connects these two worlds together.

    There are some other nice features in this type of toolkit that the web community seems to be heading towards. I'd be willing to bet a lot that at some point they'll even reinvent inheritance under a new name, because being able to write code that's generic over component trees is really pretty useful. The hooks/functions model totally wrecks that and has led to this explosion of "design systems" (otherwise known as themes), none of which interoperate properly or can be coded against in an abstracted manner.

    None of this is to say that FX is perfect or that React/SolidJS etc are the wrong tools to use. You can run FX apps in a browser using a form of server side rendering - check out to see a fully crawlable website that's actually implemented using JavaFX on the server with no frontend/backend split existing at all. But it only works well if you don't have a fast and reliable server connection, plus a server with plenty of RAM and CPU. Alas browsers pull all sorts of mean tricks to keep people locked inside the HTML5 sandbox so JS frameworks aren't going anywhere, but it would be nice if that community spread its wings a bit and looked at prior art from outside their language. GUIs are old and the challenges involved in them aren't new, and from the outside it looks suspiciously like there is no real progress being made here, only wheel spinning.

  • Ink

    🌈 React for interactive command-line apps

    You’re probably referring to

  • Appwrite

    Appwrite - The Open Source Firebase alternative introduces iOS support . Appwrite is an open source backend server that helps you build native iOS applications much faster with realtime APIs for authentication, databases, files storage, cloud functions and much more!

  • Elm

    Compiler for Elm, a functional language for reliable webapps.

    One alternative is the Model-View-Update framework developed in the Elm language [1]. A few years ago, it influenced Redux [2], but JS doesn't have good ergonomics to support it, so people complained it was too verbose. Anyway, I brought Elm to the company I worked at two jobs ago, and it worked very well, since it is conceptually very simple. The experienced developers loved its explicitness, which made it possible to build a very intricate app from just a few dependencies, which in turn allowed the company to have a very fine-grained control of the UI, and the customers loved the result.

    On the other hand, other less experienced developers didn't like Elm so much because React allows you to write your app with fewer lines of code. The article from this discussion explains well that React (especially with hooks) hides complexity, which bites people later. At that time, it is perhaps too late to switch to something else.

    Needless to say, I haven't been able to convince any other employer to use Elm, and then I see issues popping out all the time that would never happen with it. Such a waste, just because people like shiny toys and just follow what others around them are doing without thinking too much.


  • Phoenix

    Peace of mind from prototype to production

    4 letters. HTMX.

    Or look at to see what a web framework would look like if real-time updates mattered. (That said I do find that simple IoT applications like a volume knob for my smart speakers in party mode or that can toggle my lights do work well with websockets + mobx + React.)

    As for DX, I think waiting for "npm run start" to get out it's own way is a large enough decrement that I don't have to get into all the many problems w/ JS build systems.

    I will grant that React is nice for an animation-heavy UI and I play video games enough that I appreciate such things. Another thing I like about React vs similar competitors is that the rendering model is flexible enough to enable things like react-three-fibers which is another reason for me not to invest in Vue, Svelte and things like that.

    As for user experience isn't it the dark truth that Google and Facebook want "as many UI redraws as possible?" Let's face it, the honest clickthrough rate on ads is indistinguishable from zero but when you visit some site like anandtech it is by no means accidental that the layout rerenders endlessly because each rerender is a chance that a click on a link is transmogrified into a click on an ad. It's covert click fraud and is a large enough decrement and between that and the endless staring at spinners and waiting things to load any possible increment in user experience is at best hypothetical.

    (e.g. in another window I have a completely SSRed app that uses HTMX. It uses zero spinners, runs as fast or faster than a desktop app, and never has the UI move around mindlessly. I grant it would be cool if it had some more animation but would I trade that for rock solid responsiveness?)

  • jotai

    👻 Primitive and flexible state management for React

    Jotai may be small and focused, but is definitely not a single file:

NOTE: The number of mentions on this list indicates mentions on common posts plus user suggested alternatives. Hence, a higher number means a more popular project.

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