yjs VS SyncedStore

One idea is just to use fewer random bits in peerIDs. Yjs (https://docs.yjs.dev/) gets away with just 32 random bits. If you compromise and use 64 random bits, then even a very popular doc with 1 million lifetime peerIDs will have a < 10^-7 lifetime probability of collision.

I've seen it come up often in collaborative text editors.

Also see: https://github.com/yjs/yjs

You are absolutely right that XML is better for document structures.

My current theory is that Yjs [0] is the new JSON+XML. It gives you both JSON and XML types in one nested structure, all with conflict free merging via incremental updates.

Also, you note the issue with XML and overlapping inline markup. Yjs has an answer for that with its text type, you can apply attributes (for styling or anything else) via arbatary ranges. They can overlap.

Obviously I'm being a little hypabolic suggesting it will replace JSON, the beauty of JSON is is simplicity, but for many systems building on Yjs or similar CRDT based serialisation systems is the future.

https://github.com/yjs/yjs/

Note: https://github.com/yjs/yjs for collaborative "document edition, and user cursors"; has WebRTC, web socket, matrix.org backend

CCP needs to revamp proto anyway, due to recent exploits... practically, nothing really prevents 'em from using some sort of CRDT's to make the state of the sig view eventually consistent (yjs lib, if we're speaking frontendian).

Yjs framework: Because it is a CRDT implementation which provides collaborative editing and offline-first capability.

No problem. The database CRUD features are just helpers as an abstraction on top of yjs: https://docs.yjs.dev/. Eweser adds schemas in the form of typescript types to make using it simpler, more structured, and interoperability easier.

This article has been quite the inspiration for many projects and progress on this front. I think we're seeing more and more developments around CRDTs and local-first frameworks / applications.

I'm working on a few projects in this area:

- https://www.typecell.org - Notion meets Notebook-style live programming for TypeScript / React

- https://www.blocknotejs.org - a rich text editor built on TipTap / Prosemirror that supports Yjs for local-first collaboration

- https://syncedstore.org - a wrapper around Yjs for easier development

In my experience so far, some things get more complicated when building a local-first application, and some things get a lot easier. What gets easier is that once you've modeled and implemented the data-layer (which does require you to rethink / unlearn a few principles), you don't need to worry about data-fetching, errors etc. as much as in a regular "API-based" app.

Another interesting video I recommend on this topic is about Linear's "Sync Engine" which employs some of the local-first techniques as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo2m3jaJixU

Hi! Great questions :)

First of all, SyncedStore does not implement any CRDT algorithms. Credits for this go to Yjs [1] (and its author Kevin), which it uses as underlying CRDT.

Yjs and Automerge are (afaik) the two most commonly used CRDT implementations. Both have their pros and cons, but Yjs has focused a lot on performance [2].

Automerge has a bit friendlier "Immer style" [3] API. I'm not too familiar with @localfirst/state, but it seems to add a Redux style API on top of Automerge.

My approach with SyncedStore was really to provide an API on top of Yjs that's as simple as possible to use in React / Vue / Svelte or plain JS app. I.e.: only use a single React Hook to observe changes, and use regular Javascript assigments to update values. The API is inspired mostly by Reactive Programming libraries such as MobX [4] (from the same author as Immer).

Hope you're still following along :) Maybe it helps to compare the TODO-MVC applications, as both SyncedStore (https://github.com/YousefED/SyncedStore/tree/main/examples) and @localfirst/state (https://github.com/local-first-web/state/tree/main/examples/...) have implemented these as examples!

[1]: https://github.com/yjs/yjs

I’m exploring the ideas (an easy to use framework to build local-first [1] apps) in my library Reactive-CRDT (https://github.com/yousefed/reactive-crdt). Feedback welcome!

All credit for the underlying tech to YJS, which has been amazing as mentioned by others in this thread.

[1]: https://www.inkandswitch.com/local-first.html