workerd VS Greenplum

Standards bodies only standardize things after they've been proven to work. You can't standardize a new idea before offering it to the market. It's hard enough to get just one vendor to experiment with an idea (it literally took me years to convince everyone inside Cloudflare that we should build Durable Objects). Getting N competing vendors to agree on it -- before anything has been proven in the market -- is simply not possible.

But the Durable Objects API is not complicated and there's nothing stopping competing platforms from building a compatible product if they want. Much of the implementation is open source, even. In fact, if you build an app on DO but decide you don't want to host it on Cloudflare, you can self-host it on workerd:

https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd

In any case, I welcome this initiative with my open hands and look forward all the cool apps that people will now build with this!

[1] https://pyodide.org/

[2] https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/blob/main/docs/pyodide...

[3] https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/pull/1875

For ref:

- https://blog.cloudflare.com/workerd-open-source-workers-runt...

- https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd

workerd

I think this is for people who want to run their own cloudflare workers (sort of) and since nobody wants to run full node for that, they want a small runtime that just executes js/wasm in an isolated way. But I wonder why they don't tell me how I can be sure that this is safe or how it's safe. Surely I can't just trust them and it explicitly mentions that it still has file IO so clearly there is still work I need to do customize the isolation further. But then they don't show any info on that core usecase. But then that's probably because they don't really want you to use this to run it on your own, they are selling you on running things on their edge platform called "Wasmer Edge". So that's probably why this is so light on information.. the motivation isn't to get you to use this yourself, just to use this their hosted edge platform. But then I wonder why I wouldn't just use https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd which is also open source. Surely that is fast enough? If not then it should show some benchmarks?

i love how the main reference for workerd can be just one capnp file.

https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/blob/main/src/workerd/...

this changed my world how i think about computing on the web.

if there was just a good enough js library as for lua and you could directly send capnp messages to workerd instead of always going through files. I guess one day i have to relearn c++ and understand how the internals actually work.

A significant chunk of it is open source: https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/

Some of the configuration files for applications wind up being an entire language unto themselves, e.g., https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd/blob/1b5057f2bfcfedf146f6f79ff04e99903d55412b/src/workerd/io/compatibility-date.capnp

Edge runtimes are very good alternatives to containers that shouldn't be dismissed for "not being containers". They're often faster, more scalable, and cheaper than containers. Them being so lightweight also enable a "nanoservice architecture" – being able to run every service on a single computer instead of running different services on different computers and having to deal with network latency and unreliability.

Friends don't let their friends choose Mysql :)

A super long time ago (decades) when I was using Oracle regularly I had to make a decision on which way to go. Although Mysql then had the mindshare I thought that Postgres was more similar to Oracle, more standards compliant, and more of a real enterprise type of DB. The rumor was also that Postgres was heavier than MySQL. Too many horror stories of lost data (MyIsam), bad transactions (MyIsam lacks transaction integrity), and the number of Mysql gotchas being a really long list influenced me.

In time I actually found out that I had underestimated one of the most important attributes of Postgres that was a huge strength over Mysql: the power of community. Because Postgres has a really superb community that can be found on Libera Chat and elsewhere, and they are very willing to help out, I think Postgres has a huge advantage over Mysql. RhodiumToad [Andrew Gierth] https://github.com/RhodiumToad & davidfetter [David Fetter] https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidfetter are incredibly helpful folks.

I don't know that Postgres' licensing made a huge difference or not but my perception is that there are a ton of 3rd party products based on Postgres but customized to specific DB needs because of the more liberalness of the PG license which is MIT/BSD derived https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/

Some of the PG based 3rd party DBs:

Enterprise DB https://www.enterprisedb.com/ - general purpose PG with some variants

Greenplum https://greenplum.org/ - Data warehousing

Crunchydata https://www.crunchydata.com/products/hardened-postgres - high security Postgres for regulated environments

Citus https://www.citusdata.com - Distributed DB & Columnar

Timescale https://www.timescale.com/

Why Choose PG today?

If you want better ACID: Postgres

If you want more compliant SQL: Postgres

If you want more customizability to a variety of use-cases: Postgres using a variant

If you want the flexibility of using NOSQL at times: Postgres

If you want more product knowledge reusability for other backend products: Postgres

I was wondering if anyone had thought about using this to experiment with the planner.

The engineering and support teams at Greenplum, a fork of Postgres, have a tool (minirepro[0]) which, given a sql query, can grab a minimal set of DDLs and the associated statistics for the tables involved in the query that can then be loaded into a "local" GPDB instance. Having the DDL and the statistics meant the team was able to debug issues in the optimizer (example [1]), without having access to a full set of data. This approach, if my understanding is correct, could be enabled in the browser with this Postgres WASM capability.

[0] https://github.com/greenplum-db/gpdb/blob/6X_STABLE/gpMgmt/b...

A database solution architect at AWS, with over 10 years of experience in the database industry. Lili has been involved in the R&D of the Hadoop/Hive NoSQL database, enterprise-level database DB2, distributed data warehouse Greenplum/Apache HAWQ and Amazon’s cloud native database.

Today, it is normal for enterprises to leverage diversified databases. In my market of expertise, China, in the Internet industry, MySQL together with data sharding middleware is the go to architecture, with GreenPlum, HBase, Elasticsearch, Clickhouse and other big data ecosystems being auxiliary computing engine for analytical data. At the same time, some legacy systems (such as SQLServer legacy from .NET transformation, or Oracle legacy from outsourcing) can still be found in use. In the financial industry, Oracle or DB2 is still heavily used as the core transaction system. New business is migrating to MySQL or PostgreSQL. In addition to transactional databases, analytical databases are increasingly diversified as well.

Green Plum

PostgreSQL is a free and advanced database system with the capacity to handle a lot of data. It’s available for very large data in several forms like Greenplum and Redshift on Amazon. It is open source and is managed by an organized and very principled community.

2003 - https://greenplum.org/

There's Greenplum!