serenity VS nextspace

SerenityOS replicates that look and feel. It is also implemented in a dialect of C++ that adheres to some of the good parts of C++98: https://serenityos.org

One example of a useful technique

https://serenityos.org/ apparently only makes source code available. There are no binary images of the OS to install

I think Andreas said this functions like a little test -- if you're not willing to build it from source, then you probably wouldn't be a good contributor anyway.

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Likewise, my shell project provides source tarballs only, right now - https://www.oilshell.org/release/0.21.0/

It is packaged in a number of places, which I appreciate. That means some other people are willing to do some work.

And they provide good feedback.

I would like it to be more widely available, but yeah I definitely see that you need to "gate" peanut gallery feedback a bit, because it takes up a lot of time.

Of course, it's a tricky balance, because you also want feedback from casual users, to make the project better.

Indeed, given the existence of `JS::NonnullGCPtr`, `JS::GcPtr` intentionally corresponds to a nullable pointer, so it seems dangerous to convert one to a reference without a null-check.

That said, a naive code search finds what *may* be more cases of this pattern:

https://github.com/search?q=repo%3ASerenityOS%2Fserenity+%2F...

Eg: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/blob/a68b134e6dea5065... -> https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/blob/a68b134e6dea5065...

In some of those search results, it is fine because there is a preceding null-check, and obviously I know nothing about this code other than this naive search result, but perhaps it would be prudent to vet all of them.

It is a SerenityOS project. You can find the answer to that question in their primary project's FAQ[1].

1. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/blob/master/Documenta...

https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity

The best way to write proper exception free C++ is not to use the C++ Standard Library.

I initially confused it with Serenity OS prior to watching the video: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity

My contributions to SerenityOS[0] helped me get my current job. My team lead (who was also my interviewer) was interested in what I did since I listed some of it in my CV, and I showed him some PRs I made and explained what went into each of them. It was really exciting because I didn't have professional experience with low-level development, and basically got the job due to hobby programming.

[0]: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pulls?q=is%3Apr+autho...

Definitely not "literally impossible", just a great deal of work. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Ladybird

Interesting project. Any link to NEXTSPACE?

I'd love to run GNUStep on my Linux machine simply because The NeXT heritage brings with it the only sane keyboard shortcut / keybinding system on the Linux desktop. Before I go on a tangent, let me link to NEXTSPACE [1] which is a CentOS based GNUStep OS. Sadly, since the author is from the Ukraine, all development has halted since last February :( I hope he is ok.

Now the keybinding tangent: If you're not rolling VIM keybindings in the whole desktop (which is tricky for non-modal interfaces and alienating a large amount of users), the next best ergonomic keybinding scheme is the Emacs / Gnu Readline system [2]. It allows moving the cursor without having to move hands around (e.g. going to the arrow keys, coming back to the alphabetical keys). It is one of the base tenets of unix systems. Every terminal supports it. Yet, the whole bunch of Linux Desktop systems completely ignored these keybindings and copypastaed the Windows concept instead, coming up with a weird chimera of readline in some places, and half-windows, half-self-invented in others.

Gnome used to have an Emacs compatibility mode that was somehow off by default and had to be enabled in a tweak. It was removed with GTK 4 however. If you want to do that in KDE, you have to run a weird python daemon, and half the apps constantly stop working because they key codes are being messed with.

MacOS on the other hand, supports these keybindings in every input dialog, it is a pleasure to use. Even more so, to have the same keybindings in every app and not having to learn new ones on a per-app basis.

Of course, running weird python key code daemons runs into the other problem that macOS & Gnustep solved in a much nicer way: By copying the shortcut system from Windows and patching it on top of Readline, many shortcuts have double entries. Printing is CTRL-P, but so is readline "Previous Line". macOS and Gnustep solve this by having a separate key for app actions: Command (or Hyper or Alt). So print is Command+P. Everywhere. Previous line is CTRL-P. This is always my go-to Linux joke where "Copy" is "CTRl-C" everywhere, except in the Terminal, where it's CTRL-SHIFT-C because yeah, CTRL-C has another meaning. Talk about a sane shortcut system if apps have to use different ones per shortcut because the amalgamation of Windows Shortcuts + Readline is a match made in hell.

[1]: https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace

In case you want to have a NeXT-like experience on Linux, I’ve had good fun with NEXTSPACE:

- https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace

Alas, the developer is Ukrainian, and hasn’t committed anything in a long while. But maybe someone could help out?

I described some of my feelings on the matter fairly recently here:

https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/17/linux_desktop_feature...

My personal preference, and what I'm writing on right now, is Unity.

I am also very fond of the ROX Desktop.

What would I really like to see? Well, barring attempts to just rip up everything and start again for no good reason, I think there would be a lot of mileage in recreating some of the classic UIs of the past that many people have loved.

* Classic MacOS was a sublime UI, with a lot of subtle non-obvious features. In its way it was far more polished than Mac OS X, even now.

* OS/2 2.x's Workplace Shell was not one of my personal favourites, but it had some excellent design features, and was loved by many.

* I have an Amiga but I never was a big fan back in the day, but a good solid modern Amiga Workbench clone would have some mileage, and as I said in the article, there are already FOSS implementations, just not for xNix.

* GEM is FOSS now. Why not recreate DR's multitasking GEM/X on Linux, or any of the late-era multitasking GEM desktops from the Atari ST, such as Thing or TeraDesk?

One of my favourite UIs is undergoing a pretty good re-implementation effort, in the form of NeXTspace:

https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace

There are more than half a dozen non-Windows-like desktop metaphors. Is that enough for you or shall I find some more? :-)

AFAIK, NEXTSPACE is the only NeXTSTEP-like desktop environment that is (was) actively being developed (https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace). The author had been working on this project for more than 5 years and he had been pushing code almost every single day.

Unfortunately, he had to stop development since Russia invasion of Ukraine, as he lives in Kyiv, Ukraine. He said he was OK and would like to continue development "after Ukraine’s victory" (https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/discussions/412). But that was about 4 months ago.

As someone who really likes NeXTSTEP and hopes NEXTSPACE to succeed, the current situation is sad.

Just wanted to inform the crowds at HN about this.

:wq

[Article author here]

> I think my ideal Linux OS is probably Ubuntu/CentOS + something like macOS’s .app bundle file format for distributing end-user applications.

Then I suggest looking at NeXTspace:

https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace

It does exactly that. CentOS, plus .app bundles, all integrated into a single bundle.

But the .app bundles come from GNUstep, so you can't pick your own desktop.