sectorlisp
sectorforth
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sectorlisp | sectorforth | |
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25 | 9 | |
1,156 | 368 | |
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4.3 | 0.0 | |
4 months ago | almost 2 years ago | |
C | Assembly | |
ISC License | MIT License |
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sectorlisp
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are there any benchmarks on sector lisp
I'm assuming you are referring to https://github.com/jart/sectorlisp which I gather is an attempt to make a Lisp that fits in a disk boot sector?
- Kilo Lisp: A Kilo Byte-Sized Lisp System
- For the LISP 1.5 mainframe fans here...
- Ask HN: Best book to learn C in 2022?
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Take More Screenshots
I think SIMD was a distraction to our conversation, most code doesn't use it and in the future the length agnostic, flexible vectors; https://github.com/WebAssembly/flexible-vectors/blob/master/... are a better solution. They are a lot like RVV; https://github.com/riscv/riscv-v-spec, research around vector processing is why RISC-V exists in the first place!
I was trying to find the smallest Rust Wasm interpreters I could find, I should have read the source first, I only really use wasmtime, but this one looks very interesting, zero deps, zero unsafe.
16.5kloc of Rust https://github.com/rhysd/wain
The most complete wasm env for small devices is wasm3
20kloc of C https://github.com/wasm3/wasm3
I get what you are saying as to be so small that there isn't a place of bugs to hide.
> “There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult.” CAR Hoare
Even a 100 line program can't be guaranteed to be free of bugs. These programs need embedded tests to ensure that the layer below them is functioning as intended. They cannot and should not run open loop. Speaking of 300+ reimplementations, I am sure that RISC-V has already exceeded that. The smallest readable implementation is like 200 lines of code; https://github.com/BrunoLevy/learn-fpga/blob/master/FemtoRV/...
I don't think Wasm suffers from the base extension issue you bring up. It will get larger, but 1.0 has the right algebraic properties to be useful forever. Wasm does require an environment, for archival purposes that environment should be written in Wasm, with api for instantiating more envs passed into the first env. There are two solutions to the Wasm generating and calling Wasm problem. First would be a trampoline, where one returns Wasm from the first Wasm program which is then re-instantiated by the outer env. The other would be to pass in the api to create new Wasm envs over existing memory buffers.
See, https://copy.sh/v86/
MS-DOS, NES or C64 are useful for archival purposes because they are dead, frozen in time along with a large corpus of software. But there is a ton of complexity in implementing those systems with enough fidelity to run software.
Lua, Typed Assembly; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typed_assembly_language and Sector Lisp; https://github.com/jart/sectorlisp seem to have the right minimalism and compactness for archival purposes. Maybe it is sectorlisp+rv32+wasm.
If there are directions you would like Wasm to go, I really recommend attending the Wasm CG meetings.
https://github.com/WebAssembly/meetings
When it comes to an archival system, I'd like it to be able to run anything from an era, not just specially crafted binaries. I think Wasm meets that goal.
https://gist.github.com/dabeaz/7d8838b54dba5006c58a40fc28da9...
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*Laughs in autocmd*
Based on this, the next thing you wrote, and your reference to running a minimal Gentoo: I think you might be a Scheme fan in the making. Scheme is the minimal Lisp. (Okay, that might be sectorlisp which fits in 512 bytes.) It’s hands down my favorite language. While it’s evolved on its own to be more of a superset of Scheme, Racket is my Scheme of choice.
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That's pretty much it!
sectorlisp
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Show HN: Lisp with GC in 436 Bytes
SectorLISP has always had a C implementation for explainability. It started off as ugly C because it was actually used to generate the assembly code for the first ~900 byte version. See https://github.com/jart/sectorlisp/blob/a561e031aec03270459f... and https://github.com/jart/sectorlisp/blob/a561e031aec03270459f... Once we reached 512 bytes I started deleting a lot of the C code since things like assembly macros weren't needed anymore, since the assembly was now being written by hand. https://github.com/jart/sectorlisp/blob/main/lisp.c
Once I cleaned up the C code, I noticed that the entire program didn't use pointers at all! (Except of course to interop with Bestline, but that could be replaced with fgetwc() instead). That's when the idea occurred to me that, since it didn't use pointers, it was also technically valid JavaScript too. So I asked around on Twitter to see if anyone's done a C / JS polyglot before. I got some helpful tips from a code golfer in Estonia who experimented with the idea and he told me about the paragraph separator trick. https://twitter.com/angealbertini/status/1463755612345540611
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A completely-from-scratch hobby operating system
Just curious how hard it would be to forego POSIX entirely if you were building an OS. I know TempleOS is entirely from scratch. I'd like to implement a small LISP like SectorLISP [1] (see yesterday's posts too on HN). I don't know much about building my own OS, so I'd like to start with something like MenuetOS (my first PL was asm), SerenityOS, TempleOS, or this one. I'd like it to be completely an 'island', i.e. POSIX not a requirement. I want to use it to hack on in isolation without any easy copy/paste shortcuts. I know Mezzano exists, and it has booted on bare metal, but I would like to start with the OS's above, implement my own LISP, and go from there.
Any other OS recommendations base on my ignorant, but wishful, reqs above? I realize there are some others in Rust too. Thanks!
- Lisp in a Weekend
sectorforth
- Konilo: A personal computing system in Forth
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Fourteen Years of Go
> I'm not sure here how you differentiate minimalist from restrictive.
The flexibility of the language and its syntax. The more constructs are syntactic, the less minimalistic it is, and Go is a very syntactic language.
> I've always considered Go to be minimalist in terms of available tokens to the programmer: https://github.com/e3b0c442/keywords/blob/main/chart.png
No language on this chart has even a passing resemblance to minimalistic. I don't think anything does when it reaches double digit keywords.
For reference, I believe Smalltalk has 6.
And forth is more complicated because it doesn't really have keywords at all, and barely any syntax, instead it has assembly-coded / runtime-provided words (~functions) and variables. SectorForth (https://github.com/cesarblum/sectorforth/) is down to 8 builtin words, 2 IO words, and 5 variables (milliforth packs those behind a word instead). And so far 2 of the words have been found unnecessary / redundant.
- MilliForth
- Ask HN: What are some impressive software projects that fit in 512 bytes?
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That's pretty much it!
sectorforth
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A Forth bootable by old 386 PCs?
If you want to go allll the way down to the metal, you could put https://github.com/cesarblum/sectorforth in a floppy boot sector and then work your way up from there, enabling line A20 and switching into 32-bit protected mode yourself. Certainly on the "DIY" end of the spectrum, but it sure would be satisfying.
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suckless programming languages?
Forth - More powerful and minimal than C, can fit in 512 bytes
- BootOS operating system in 512 bytes
What are some alternatives?
small-lisp - A very small lisp interpreter, that I may one day get working on my 8-bit AVR microcontroller.
Carp - A statically typed lisp, without a GC, for real-time applications.
mal - mal - Make a Lisp
book8088 - Examples from my book Programming Boot Sector Games
porth - It's like Forth but in Python
femtolisp - a lightweight, robust, scheme-like lisp implementation
colorForth - colorForth running in Bochs for Windows
jonesforth - Mirror of JONESFORTH
kernel-zig - :floppy_disk: hobby x86 kernel zig
cling - The cling C++ interpreter
wisp - A little Clojure-like LISP in JavaScript
harm-less - Inspired by suckless and cat-v, this is a simple single document wiki of suckless practices and minimal software.