runtimelab VS dotnet-script

There was a "green thread" experiment for dotnet a while ago, here is the conclusion: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

Experiment result write-up: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/blob/e69dda51c7d796b812...

TLDR: The green threads experiment was a failure as it found (expected and obvious) issues that the Java applications are now getting to enjoy, joining their Go colleagues, while also requiring breaking changes. It, however, gave inspiration to subsequent re-examination of current async/await implementation and whether it can be improved by moving state machine generation and execution away from IL completely to runtime. It was a massive success as evidenced by preliminary overhead estimations in the results.

Yeah, it kind of is. There are quite a few of experiments that are conducted to see if they show promise in the prototype form and then are taken further for proper integration if they do.

Unfortunately, object stack allocation was not one of them even though DOTNET_JitObjectStackAllocation configuration knob exists today, enabling it makes zero impact as it almost never kicks in. By the end of the experiment[0], it was concluded that before investing effort in this kind of feature becomes profitable given how a lot of C# code is written, there are many other lower hanging fruits.

To contrast this, in continuation to green threads experiment, a runtime handled tasks experiment[1] which moves async state machine handling from IL emitted by Roslyn to special-cased methods and then handling purely in runtime code has been a massive success and is now being worked on to be integrated in one of the future version of .NET (hopefully 10?)

[0] https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/issues/11192

[1] https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/blob/feature/async2-exp...

Unlike these folks from dotnet, which tested directly on ASP for real workload

  https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398?darkschemeovr=1

[1] https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

The only way to avoid it is to not build on top of Java or not adding any features on top of Java.

> To give another example with C#, there has been a lot of recent discussion about finding potential alternatives to their async-await concurrency model. They cite the level of effort it takes to maintain the async await style code and the costs that come from this.

I had a very different take-away. They did PoC with virtual threads and decided it's not worth the switch now and async-await that they have is good enough.

https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

> Some of the languages it gets compared too aren't even that old yet.

C# is old enough to drink and Scala just had its 20th birthday this week :)

It was tried and the dotnet team decided to drop it: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

Technical details here: https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/blob/feature/green-thre...

Just last month .NET ended a green threading experiment, mainly because the overhead it adds to FFI was too high:

https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/issues/2398

Rust had green threads until late 2014, and they were removed because of their impact on performance.

Everyone has done the basic research: green threading is a convenient abstraction that comes with certain performance trade offs. It doesn't work for the kind of profile that Rust is trying to target.

Especially because these languages are only one package/install away and not two. I don‘t really get for which audience is targeted here. Usage in JS projects maybe, but then why not write it as npm tasks. ..

I‘m playing around with dotnet-scripts [1] at the moment (C# shop mainly) and this has the same issue imho. The reason why I looked into it was because we have developers not accustomed to bash etc. I still find it silly and would rather use ruby so…

[1] https://github.com/dotnet-script/dotnet-script

>making powershell actually enjoyable to use

My solution was to stop using it and instead use dotnet-script

https://github.com/dotnet-script/dotnet-script

Scripting with the full power of modern C# has been a huge win for me. And same/similar scripts will work on Windows/Linux/Mac. As my work language is C#, I don't have to context switch to another language for scripting.

I usually create a container that has all database migrations and tool to execute those migrations. I name migrations as [yyyyMMdd-HHmm-migration-name.sql] but please feel free to use any naming scheme, keep in mind how the tool would order multiple files to run those migrations. I have also added a wait-for-db.csx file that I would use as the entry point for database migrations container. This is a dotnet-script file and would be run using dotnet-script. I have pinned the versions that are compatible with .net sdk 3.1 as this the version roundhouse is build against at the time of writing.

thanks, this is very good idea too, and with dotnet-script we can publish executable out of the script!

It sounds like this is feedback for the author of the dotnet script tool: https://github.com/dotnet-script/dotnet-script

Yes, you can have single-file scripts too. There might be more options to achieve this, but the one that I use is running *.csx files via the dotnet-script (https://github.com/dotnet-script/dotnet-script).

I do agree.

I think .Net has got it right. And dotnet-script [https://github.com/dotnet-script/dotnet-script] has been a game-changer for me with a REPL-like experience for unit testing and writing command-line utilities.