reference-types VS biwascheme

> It could be an interesting use case for WASM if the problem of passing data into the WASM VM cheaply (perhaps by reference) can be solved.

WASM Reference Types should hopefully solve this. The WASM working group seems to have some good momentum - so I'm hopeful this (or a similar replacement spec) will land sooner rather than later.

https://github.com/WebAssembly/reference-types/blob/master/p...

AFAIK GC is irrelevant for "direct DOM access", you would rather want to hop into the following rabbit hole:

- reference types: https://github.com/WebAssembly/reference-types/blob/master/p...

- interface types (inactive): https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/main/pro...

- component model: https://github.com/WebAssembly/component-model

If this looks like a mess, that's because it is. Compared to that, the current solution to go through a Javascript shim doesn't look too bad IMHO.

[1]: https://github.com/WebAssembly/proposals

A glance of the overview and spec seems to indicate that WASM will provide some primitive data types, and any GC language can build their implementation on top of it. As I understand it, it's heavily based on Reference Types[3], which allows acting on host-provided types, and is already considered part of the spec [4]. It doesn't remove the need for the 5 different runtimes to have their own GC, but it lowers the bulk that the runtimes need to carry around, and offloads some of that onto the WASM runtime instead.

[3]: https://github.com/WebAssembly/reference-types/blob/master/p...

They've talked about interface types, and added reference types, which is a stepping stone toward the GC extension proposal, which would be a stepping stone toward manipulating the DOM from the WebAssembly side, but their official roadmap page is more short-term.

Nope, WASM reference types, it has nothing to do with .NET type system.

> And there's been talk of exposing the JS GC to wasm for a few years. Hopefully when that stuff lands, it'll get easier to marshal objects across the gap.

You don't need a Wasm GC to do this. If you only need js objects to pass on to, say, the host's function or check is null or not, then reference types that are opaque external references: https://github.com/WebAssembly/reference-types/blob/master/p...

You can even do many more things if you export `Reflect` to WebAssembly: https://github.com/AssemblyScript/assemblyscript/blob/main/t...

Reference Types are available almost everywhere already (In Safari will be available after 15.0): https://webassembly.org/roadmap

Re: GC -- yes, indeed, the whole business with safepoints arose from the need to support Wasm reference types as a backend for Wasmtime or Firefox. No safepoints are needed for Rust (or other C-like) code.

Reference Types,

If Scheme is something you enjoy, BiwaScheme's interpreter can be instantiated from within Javascript and can be used to evaluate Scheme code.

https://www.biwascheme.org/

This project is very exciting. In the meantime, there are a couple of options:

BiwaScheme: https://www.biwascheme.org/

Advantages: written in JavaScript, with excellent JS interop. Project has some history.

Disadvantages: slower than S7 (though still plenty fast for many uses), less-complete (e.g., no syntax-rules or syntax-case, though it does have its own define-macro).

S7 Scheme: https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/bil/s7

Written in C, but can be transpiled to WASM (see https://github.com/actonDev/s7-playground/ )

Advantages: This project also has some history. Considerably faster than BiwaScheme.

Disadvantages: JS interop is clumsier (basically the same issues as JS interop with any WASM code... this could probably be mitigated considerably if someone wanted to take the time).

For Scheme implementations there are LIPS and biwascheme. I haven't done more than play around with them, so I can't really give an informed opinion about pros and cons or favorites.

I used to have hundreds of open tabs. From there I kept repurposing it to do more stuff with the browser until it reached its current state, where I want to make it a "extend firefox from Emacs" thing. It kinda do that already, but extending the firefox-extension itself require the extension to be re-built (so you need whole javascript tooling, rebuild and reload the addon etc). I am considering adding something like biwascheme to it soon to work around that.

And then users can just use biwascheme and run programs in mainframes and their smart toasters

Languages like Biwa Scheme and LIPS Scheme are good for running Scheme in the browser. But I would prefer compiling Scheme code to JavaScript in the server, then serving the compiled JavaScript image to the browser.

Just a note that even BiwaScheme doesn't fully implement call/cc, it doesn't save the whole environment when capturing.

Very cool! Do you know how this compares with Biwascheme? https://www.biwascheme.org/

Biwascheme has some weird scoping bugs that makes me a litte afraid of using it for serious stuff. It seems nixe and all, but this: https://github.com/biwascheme/biwascheme/issues/125 is not very confidemce inspiring.

There is another schemey language that compiles to JS that accepts things like this:

    (when (start-are-aligned?)