Laminar VS cats-effect

My quite niche open source project broke this threshold last year, via Github sponsorships. Of course, I put a lot of time into it, so it's not "passive income" or even "market rate income", but still, without these sponsorships I wouldn't be able to work on it so much.

The project is Laminar, a UI library for Scala.js https://laminar.dev

I've noticed that Laminar and the newly released Kyo point that they don't use a lot of macros as a feature. Laminar says "Easy to understand: no macros", while Kyo emphasizes "Note: defer is currently the only macro in Kyo. All other features use regular language constructs." It seems that using less macros is something library users will like.

https://laminar.dev/ might be what you need. Though I wish there was a more beginner friendly (I'm not from front-end world) tutorial for me to follow along.

Have you looked at Laminar and Tyrian? Especially Tyrian seems to be close to what you're looking for.

For Scala there is Laminar, which has an even flashier website with nice docs. I haven't tested it out though, as I have never used Scala.

I found this scala library called Laminar which looks super similar to solid. They use signals and has no virtual dom. State changes are represented by signals and events by event streams. Thus they seems to have feature parity with RXJS as they can model all sorts of async stuff. Best part is they get to keep writing their markup in C-style syntax than XML based JSX. It looks super elegant,minimalist and has type safety.

This is very true. I really hate svelte single file components. But then I tried JSX for breaking things down. I love solid but I don't feel really good about angle brackets within C style syntax. I saw this Scala library that stick with simple statically typed function syntax than html tags. I don't understand why people still wants to stick with xml like tags. In laminar markup is written like this scala div( h1("Hello world", color := "red"), inputCaption, input(inputMods, name := "fullName"), div( ">>", button("Submit"), "<<" ) ) I wish solid team makes their HyperScript syntax as performant as JSX.

Laminar (Scala framework) hasn't been mentioned yet so dropping it here as an awesome framework that support HTML-over-the-wire. It can be used together with React, HTMX, and many other frontend frameworks -- but doesn't have to be.

https://laminar.dev/

Scala.js core itself, which I maintain, does not need much innovation. We support all of Scala, and interact with any JavaScript library. That's what the core promises.

If you want to compare to Scala 3, it's worth pointing out that you can use Scala.js with any Scala version >= 2.12.2. In particular, you can use it with Scala 3 and benefit from all its innovations. ;)

Innovation comes mainly from libraries, notably UI libraries. Laminar (https://laminar.dev/) is a great example.

In terms of roadmap, we are mostly working on "boring" stuff: improving performance (of the generated code, and of the linker), fixing bugs when they get reported, etc.

Perhaps, when Wasm gets more features for deeper interoperability with JavaScript (manipulating objects notably), we will take another look at targeting Wasm. People usually expect all languages to target Wasm now, "because it's fast". Truth is, it's fast for languages with linear memory. There is no evidence yet that it will be fast for memory-managed languages with objects and virtual dispatch.

Those benchmarks are using a snapshot version of cats-effect. I don't know where that one comes from, but previously they were using a snapshot from https://github.com/typelevel/cats-effect/pull/3332 which had some issues (3.5-6581dc4, 70% performance degradation), which have since been resolved (see that PR for more info and comparative benchmarks).

Recently, CE3 has had similar issues reported across multiple repositories, almost an epidemic of reports!

The one advantage Rust has over Scala is that it detects data races at compile time, and that's a big time saver if you use low level thread synchronization. However, if you write pure FP code with ZIO or Cats Effect that's basically a non-issue anyway.

See also cats-effect and fs2. cats-effect gives you your IO Monad (and IOApp to run it with on supported platforms). fs2 is the ecosystem’s streaming library, which is much more pervasive in functional Scala than in Haskell. For example, http4s and Doobie are both based on fs2.

On the contrary, switching to the functional mindset, with something like Typelevel Scala3 and respective cats and cats-effect fs2 frameworks, helps to rethink a lot of designs and development approaches.

I think "better Haskell on JVM" (in contrast to "worse Haskell") is a good identity for Scala to have. (Please note that this is an intentional hyperbole.)

Of course, there are areas where Haskell is stronger than Scala (hint: modularity, crucial for good Software Engineering, is not one of them). And Scala has its own way of doing things, so just imitating Haskell won't work well.

Examples of this "better Haskell" are https://typelevel.org/cats-effect/ and https://zio.dev/ .

All together, Scala may be a better choice for you if you want to do Pure Functional Programming. And is definitely less risky (runs on JVM, Java libraries interop, IntelliJ, easy debugging, etc...).

None of the other languages you mentioned are viable in this sense (if also you want a powerful type system, which rules out Clojure).

I agree that Rust's identity is pretty clear: a modern language for use cases where only C or C++ could have been used before.

I would use Scala. I like FP and Scala comes with some awesome libraries for concurrent/async programming like Cats Effect or ZIO. Good choice for creating modern style micro-services to be run in the cloud (or even macro-services, Scala has a powerful module system, so it's made to handle large codebases).

https://typelevel.org/cats-effect/

https://zio.dev/

The language, the community and customs are great. You don't have to worry about nulls, things are immutable by default, domain modelling with ADTs and patter matching is pure joy.

The tooling available is from good to great and Scala is big enough that there are good libraries for typical if not vast majority of stuff and Java libs as a reliable fallback.

What took my interest is this (for both JVM and future multithreaded Scala native): https://github.com/typelevel/cats-effect/discussions/3070 Having the same threads poll available IO events and execute callbacks should improve performance greatly

The author is the creator of Monix and implemented the first version of cats-effect. He knows what he is doing.

You want Kernmantle, which quite honestly shouldn't be hard to implement around Cats and cats-effect. In particular, although Kernmantle doesn't require the use of the Arrow typeclass, there happen to be Arrow (actually ArrowChoice) instances for both Function1 from the standard library and Kleisli from Cats itself, given a Monad instance for the Kleilsi's F[_] type parameter. In other words, we should be able to port Kernmantle from Haskell to Scala (with the Typelevel ecosystem) and instantly be able to use pretty much anything else from the Typelevel ecosystem, or wrapped with it, in our workflow graphs. Pure functions, monadic functions, applicative functions, GADTs with hand-written interpreters, any of it. I think this would be eminently worth doing.