py2many VS Formality

> Another problem is that there are hundreds of built-in library functions that need to be compiled from Python from C

An approach I've advocated as one of the main authors of py2many is that all of the python builtin functions be written in a subset of python[1] and then compiled into native code. This has the benefit of avoiding GIL, problems with C-API among other things.

Do checkout the examples here[2] which work out of the box for many of the 8-9 supported backends.

[1] https://github.com/py2many/py2many/blob/main/doc/langspec.md

https://github.com/py2many/py2many/blob/main/doc/langspec.md

Reimplement a large enough, commonly used subset of python stdlib using this dialect and we may be in the business of writing cross platform apps (perhaps start with android and Ubuntu/Gnome)

For py2many, there is an informal specification here:

https://github.com/py2many/py2many/blob/main/doc/langspec.md

Would be great if all the authors of "python-like" languages get together and come up with a couple of specs.

I say a couple, because there are ones that support the python runtime (such as cython) and the ones which don't (like py2many).

It'd not fully solve your issue, but have you ever seen https://github.com/py2many/py2many ?

Cython doesn't consume python3 type hints and needs special type hints of its own. But it's certainly more mature than other players in the field.

What we need is a rpython suitable for app programming and a stdlib written in that dialect.

https://github.com/py2many/py2many/blob/main/doc/langspec.md

No intermediate AST. To understand the various stages of transpilation and separation of language specific and independent rewriters, this file is a good starting point:

https://github.com/adsharma/py2many/blob/main/py2many/cli.py...

Link to the test that's relevant for this discussion:

https://github.com/adsharma/py2many/blob/main/tests/cases/in...

This is an explicit deviation from python's bigint, which doesn't map very well to systemsey languages. The next logical step is to build on this to have dependent and refinement types.

Work in progress here:

https://github.com/adsharma/Typpete

Also, my current work is using Kind as a foundation, the purpose of this language is exactly what you have asked for, give a check on https://github.com/uwu-tech/Kind.

Kind has a "how I learned to stop worrying and love the `Type:Type`" vibe. That doesn't make it invalid as a proof language. It just inverts the priority: instead of consistency being the default and expressivity being opt-in (as in Agda, with the `type-in-type` pragma), it is expressive by default, and consistency is an opt-in. I strongly believe that is the right way. We plan to add opt-in termination (thus consistency) checkers, it is just not an immediate priority, but the language is completely ready for that. About `Type in Type` specifically, keep in mind that there are consistent, interesting type theories that feature `Type in Type`. So it isn't problematic in itself, and removing it seems wrong.

About erasure, you can flag an argument as computationally irrelevant by writing `` instead of `(x: A)`. So, for example, in the [Vector/concat.kind](https://github.com/uwu-tech/Kind/blob/master/base/Vector/con...) file, `A`, `n` and `m` are erased. As such, the length of the vector doesn't affect the runtime. As a good practice, you may also write `f` instead of `f(x)` syntax for erased arguments, but that is optional.

> TL;DR -- I think the language looks nice, and the compile to JS (from what I read of the Formcore source) looks to be well done. Also, the docs that are present are well presented in a non-academic way that I find pretty readable.

Thanks for the kind words. We put a lot of effort on the compilers and, while there is still a lot to improve, I'm confident they're ahead of all the other languages, by far.

Kind is a functional, general-purpose programming language featuring theorems and proofs. It has the smallest core, a pretty solid JavaScript and Scheme compiler (seriously, check how clean is the generated kind.js), and a syntax that is a middle ground between Haskell and TypeScript, in an attempt to make it more accessible.

I'm writing CONTRIBUTE.md right now.