pinecone
weechat-matrix
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pinecone | weechat-matrix | |
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8 | 11 | |
410 | 948 | |
0.5% | - | |
3.7 | 2.0 | |
8 months ago | 8 months ago | |
Go | Python | |
Apache License 2.0 | GNU General Public License v3.0 or later |
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pinecone
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Meshtastic: An open source, off-grid, decentralized, mesh network
Do you have any examples of their mobility event handling? I'm reading the documentation for Pinecone and don't see much. Even Pinecone says Yggdrasil's spanning tree isn't good enough: "However, the spanning tree topology alone is not a suitable routing scheme for highly dynamic networks." [0]
I'm reading that as why Pinecone has the virtual snake topology. But they define that as a public key-based routing, which doesn't take into account optimal routing in the network. Nodes are ordered by public key [1]
[0] https://github.com/matrix-org/pinecone#does-pinecone-work-on...
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The AT protocol is the most obtuse crock of s*
AT proto has some significant similarities to Matrix:
* Both are work by self-authenticating git-style replication of Merkle trees/DAGs
* Both define strict data schemas for extensible sets of events (Matrix uses JSON schema - https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/tree/main/data/eve... and OpenAPI; AT uses Lexicons)
* Both use HTTPS for client-server and server-server traffic by default.
* Both are focused on decentralised composable reputation - e.g. https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/19/combating-abuse-in-matrix... on the Matrix side, or https://paulfrazee.medium.com/the-anti-parler-principles-for... on the bluesky side, etc.
* Both are designed as big-world communication networks. You don't have the server balkanisation that affects ActivityPub.
* Both eschew cryptocurrency systems and incentives.
There are some significant differences too:
* Matrix aspires to be the secure communication layer for the open web.
* AT aspires (i think) to be an open decentralised social networking protocol for the internet.
* AT has portable identity by default. We've been working on this on Matrix (e.g. MSC1228 - https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/pull/122... and MSC2787 - https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/blob/nei...) and have a new MSC (and implementation on Dendrite) in progress right now which combines the best bits of MSC1228 & MSC2787 into something concrete, at last. In fact the proto-MSC is due to emerge today.
* AT is proposing a asymmetrical federation architecture where user data is stored on Personal Data Servers (PDS), but indexing/fan-out/etc is done by Big Graph Servers (BGS). Matrix is symmetrical and by default federates full-mesh between all servers participating in a conversation, which on one hand is arguably better from a self-sovereignty and resilience perspective - but empirically has created headaches where an underpowered server joins some massive public chatroom and then melts. Matrix has improved this by steady optimisation of both protocol and implementation (i.e. adding lazy loading everywhere - e.g. https://matrix-org.github.io/synapse/latest/development/syna...), but formalising an asymmetrical architecture is an interesting different approach :)
* AT is (today) focused on for public conversations (e.g. prioritising big-world search and indexing etc), whereas Matrix focuses both on private and public communication - whether that's public chatrooms with 100K users over 10K servers, or private encrypted group conversations. For instance, one of Matrix's big novelties is decentralised access control without finality (https://matrix.org/blog/2020/06/16/matrix-decomposition-an-i...) in order to enforce access control for private conversations.
* Matrix also provides end-to-end encryption for private conversations by default, today via Double Ratchet (Olm/Megolm) and in the nearish future MLS (https://arewemlsyet.com). We're also starting to work on post quantum crypto.
* Matrix is obviously ~7 years older, and has many more use cases fleshed out - whether that's native VoIP/Video a la Element Call (https://element.io/blog/introducing-native-matrix-voip-with-...) or virtual worlds like Third Room (https://thirdroom.io) or shared whiteboarding (https://github.com/toger5/TheBoard) etc.
* AT's lexicon approach looks to be a more modular to extend the protocol than Matrix's extensible event schemas - in that AT lexicons include both RPC definitions as well as the schemas for the underlying datatypes, whereas in Matrix the OpenAPI evolves separately to the message schemas.
* AT uses IPLD; Matrix uses Canonical JSON (for now)
* Matrix is perhaps more sophisticated on auth, in that we're switching to OpenID Connect for all authentication (and so get things like passkeys and MFA for free): https://areweoidcyet.com
* Matrix has an open governance model with >50% of spec proposals coming from the wider community these days: https://spec.matrix.org/proposals
* AT has done a much better job of getting mainstream uptake so far, perhaps thanks to building a flagship app from day one (before even finishing or opening up the protocol) - whereas Element coming relatively late to the picture has meant that Element development has been constantly slowed by dealing with existing protocol considerations (and even then we've had constant complaints about Element being too influential in driving Matrix development).
* AT backs up all your personal data on your client (space allowing), to aid portability, whereas Matrix is typically thin-client.
* Architecturally, Matrix is increasingly experimenting with a hybrid P2P model (https://arewep2pyet.com) as our long-term solution - which effectively would end up with all your data being synced to your client. I'd assume bluesky is consciously avoiding P2P having been overextended on previous adventures with DAT/hypercore: https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/blob/master/archive-.... Whereas we're playing the long game to slowly converge on P2P, even if that means building our own overlay networks etc: https://github.com/matrix-org/pinecone
I'm sure there are a bunch of other differences, but these are the ones which pop to the top of my head, plus I'm far from an expert in AT protocol.
It's worth noting that in the early days of bluesky, the Matrix team built out Cerulean (https://matrix.org/blog/2020/12/18/introducing-cerulean) as a demonstration to the bluesky team of how you could build big-world microblogging on top of Matrix, and that Matrix is not just for chat. We demoed it to Jack and Parag, but they opted to fund something entirely new in the form of AT proto. I'm guessing that the factors that went into this were: a) wanting to be able to optimise the architecture purely for social networking (although it's ironic that ATproto has ended up pretty generic too, similar to Matrix), b) wanting to be able to control the strategy and not have to follow Matrix's open governance model, c) wanting to create something new :)
From the Matrix side; we keep in touch with the bluesky team and wish them the best, and it's super depressing to see folks from ActivityPub and Nostr throwing their toys in this manner. It reminds me of the unpleasant behaviour we see from certain XMPP folks who resent the existence of Matrix (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35874291). The reality is that the 'enemy' here, if anyone, are the centralised communication/social platforms - not other decentralisation projects. And even the centralised platforms have the option of seeing the light and becoming decentralised one day if we play our parts well.
What would be really cool, from my perspective, would be if Matrix ended up being able to help out with the private communication use cases for AT proto - as we obviously have a tonne of prior art now for efficient & audited E2EE private comms and decentralised access control. Moreover, I /think/ the lexicon approach in AT proto could let Matrix itself be expressed as an AT proto lexicon - providing interop with existing Matrix rooms (at least semantically), and supporting existing Matrix clients/SDKs, while using AT proto's ID model and storing data in PDSes etc. Coincidentally, this matches work we've been doing on the Matrix side as part of the MIMI IETF working group to figure out how to layer Matrix on top of other existing protocols: e.g. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ralston-mimi-matrix-t... and https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ralston-mimi-matrix-m... - and if I had infinite time right now I'd certainly be trying to map Matrix's CS & SS APIs onto an AT proto lexicon to see what it looks like.
TL;DR: I think AT proto is cool, and I wish that open projects saw each other as fellow travellers rather than competitors.
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Pinecone raises $100M Series B
Thought this was about https://github.com/matrix-org/pinecone
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Matrix 2.0 — Matthew Hodgson talks about Rust in Element client, Rust SDK, IETF MLS, MIMI and more
Pinecone, which is an experimental overlay routing protocol used by P2P Matrix. It and Dendrite are extremely important to P2P Matrix.
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Ask HN: What's in Networking?
I'm excited about P2P/decentralized/distributed overlay networks. Still catching up so would be grateful for tips on resources.
Pinecone[0][1], newer initiative made by former Yggdrasil[2] maker(s).
CJDNS[3].
AIUI CJDNS relies on intermediary high-uptime discoverable router nodes which is what is motivating Pinecone. POKT[4][5] to CJDNS seems like what Filecoin is to IPFS.
I'm yet to get around to doing the groundwork of grokking more established solutions like B.A.T.M.A.N. and how all these pieces fit together,
[0]: https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/event/matrix_p2p_pinecone/
[1]: https://github.com/matrix-org/pinecone
[2]: https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/
[3]: https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns/
- Make the Internet Yours Again with an Instant Mesh Network
- Element raises $30M to boost Matrix
weechat-matrix
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Incident at Slack
I haven't had much occasion to use it (I dipped into a gaming group that used Matrix but quickly fell out of it) but https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix seems mostly adequate if you are a weechat user and just need the text chat features. Feels just like IRC.
- Element raises $30M to boost Matrix
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Adventures in Fuzzing Matrix’s Encryption
For a nicely documented and clean Matrix client implementation in Python, see weechat-matrix[1] and the matrix-nio[2] library it's based on. There's also Mirage[3] which is also based on matrix-nio and is a GUI client.
[1]: https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix
- Freenode are now routinely hijacking channels that indicate they moved to Libera
- Move of official IRC channels to libera.chat
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Thoughts on the state of the freenode IRC network - Edward Kmett
The weechat plugin unfortunately cannot coexist with wee-slack (https://github.com/wee-slack/wee-slack/issues/812, https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix/issues/248), so if one wants to participate in the Haskell Foundation Slack, or any other Slack (e.g. for work), then Matrix is off limits. Yeah, it's just a bug that will eventually get fixed, but it does make things unnecessarily complicated. :-/
- Update on beta testing payments in Signal
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Show HN: Beeper – All Your Chats in One App
I run a similar setup although with a different set of services: IRC, Slack through wee-slack, Hangouts through bitlbee with purple-hangouts, Facebook Messenger through bitlbee with bitlbee-facebook. Slack and Hangouts mostly works, but FB Messenger is a pain, attachments rarely work and it disconnects fairly often. So if the Beeper bridges end up being more reliable (possibly due to people being paid to work on them), I might just give it a try.
That is, once weechat-matrix works together with wee-slack… (https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix/issues/248) :-)
What are some alternatives?
pgvector - Open-source vector similarity search for Postgres
gomuks - A terminal based Matrix client written in Go.
element-android - A glossy Matrix collaboration client for Android.
matrix-docker-ansible-deploy - 🐳 Matrix (An open network for secure, decentralized communication) server setup using Ansible and Docker
nheko - Desktop client for Matrix using Qt and C++20.
syphon - ⚗️ a privacy centric matrix client
maubot - A plugin-based Matrix bot system.
weechat-matrix-rs - Rust rewrite of the python weechat-matrix script.
whatsapp - A Matrix-WhatsApp puppeting bridge
yggdrasil-go - An experiment in scalable routing as an encrypted IPv6 overlay network
matrix-bifrost - General purpose bridging with a variety of backends including libpurple and xmpp.js
DiskANN - Graph-structured Indices for Scalable, Fast, Fresh and Filtered Approximate Nearest Neighbor Search