Ory Kratos VS Ory Keto

I was expecting hydra / kratos to show up as an alternative.. but did not see any. Does any have any experience, good or bad about it?

https://github.com/ory/kratos

I think it would be fair to say that kratos was not the priority in 2022 in terms of code you can see not much was commited (https://github.com/ory/kratos/graphs/code-frequency) so I might have had a bad first impression.

A few issues on kratos that I consider relatively important are still missing / nobody from Ory is giving their input so it's hard to make progress and I would not take my time to contribute if I dont know if the owner are going to merge it.

An example that comes to mind is the OAuth email auto-verification or the search of users that is still super basic (we only recently got the filter of identifiers).

IMO it's almost always good to offer some OIDC social login, just depends what provider your users use.

- https://github.com/ory/kratos

Check out the milestone on github: https://github.com/ory/kratos/milestone/15

not sure if that is everything.

An open source solution pre-built from professionals like Ory Kratos or Keycloak saves you a lot of time and pain.

https://github.com/ory/kratos

One of Ory’s core competencies is permissions. We built the first Google Zanzibar implementation in the world and it’s part of Ory Network‘s global multi-region platform (https://github.com/ory/keto)

A push model is also valid if you’re heavy on policies and can accept eventual consistency. We will investigate how to generally push things to the edge (like we did with Ory Edge Sessions) or to cryptographic verification wherever staleness is acceptable.

By solving the primitives correctly in the beginning (with a multi region architecture) that job does become a lot easier, which is what we decided doing at Ory :)

slightly off-topic, but related to what ory is doing in general. How do you usually do authorization-aware search?

Imagine, I have a bunch of Google docs and using https://github.com/ory/keto for authorization. I can quickly answer the question "does user X have access to document Y", but it is not easy to do "search all documents with word Hello in it, for which I have access" because access can be granted through nested groups (give read access to everyone in DepartmentA, and I am part of child department)

if you want to integrate an existing framework see if https://github.com/ory/keto solves your problems, there are similiar frameworks that support ABAC

Shameless plug for Ory Keto, probably the best reference implementation IMO https://github.com/ory/keto

Looks cool, wonder how it compares to Keto and Casbin.

How does Warrant compare to other Zanzibar based solutions like Ory Keto ?https://github.com/ory/keto

Interesting to see another project open sourced around Google Zanzibar. On a timeline for context:

- Ory came out first with Ory Keto ( https://github.com/ory/keto ) which is trying to be a close adaptation of the paper. Initially, many concepts were missing but they are making a lot of progress with the DSL and it interfaces with the rest of Ory (OAuth2, User Mangement)

- Authzed came out as a SaaS only, open sorucing the code base later on at https://github.com/authzed/spicedb

- Auth0 has been playing around with Zanzibar concepts in various forms and published a beta service at https://dashboard.fga.dev - apparently now also open source parts of it similar to what Authzed did: https://github.com/openfga

- Permify - who on a side note spammed me quite a lot with outreach because I was active in these communities - joins as well https://github.com/Permify/permify

It's exciting to see so much movement, yet also sad that so many companies are brewing their own beer instead of working collaborative on the more succesful projects. Feels like we'll just end up with one or two successful projects (looking at Ory / Auth0 here) with the rest perishing. I'm wondering if there truly is a business model for just this permission system as a saas service (looks like this is what everyone is going with). Here I'm giving Auth0 probably the biggest plus as they have an established identity service. Then again, Okta (parent of Auth0) and Auth0 themselves are not particularly known for good business practices that we usually expect from developer tooling.

What's refreshing though with Permify is that they are trying a bit of a different approach to Zanzibar!

Er, Ory Keto is written in Go.