notcurses VS CuteXterm

> The only reason we don't have animation frameworks for the terminal is because it's not possible

https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Notcurses

Notcurses. Install it and run notcurses-demo to be suitably impressed.

Same for me, I would be much more motivated if there was something like textual for Rust. Given the capability of terminal emulators now I think Rust is lacking behind in the TUI field. Just checkout what can be done with something like notcurses

On the application side of rendering, see notcurses, it is at the leading edge: https://github.com/dankamongmen/notcurses

Other TUI libraries of note: https://github.com/dankamongmen/notcurses/blob/master/doc/OT...

The broader world probably knows him best for the terminal handling library Notcurses[1] and a lot of telling terminal emulator authors to get their shit together.

I’ve had his grad-school project libtorque[2] (HotPar ’10), an event-handling and scheduling library, on my to-read list for years, but I can’t seem to figure out how it accomplishes the interesting things it does.

[1] https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Notcurses, https://github.com/dankamongmen/notcurses/

[2] https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Libtorque

In XTerm, this (rightly) makes no difference. In Foot and Contour however, you still end up a line resp. a screen below where you started, if now with the correct horizontal position.

So it seems to me like what you want should work by default, except it doesn’t.

It should be possible to instead just treat the whole thing as a graphical overlay (by computing or directly asking for the character cell size, as Kirill Panov rightly admonishes me is possible with XTWINOPS) without touching the cursor; that’s what the “sixel scrolling” setting (DECSDM) is supposed to do. Then you can just manually move the cursor forward however many positions after you’re done drawing.

Except apparently the DEC manual (the VT330/340 one above) and DEC hardware contradict each other as to which setting of DECSDM (set or reset) corresponds to which scrolling state (enabled or disabled), and XTerm has implemented it according to the manual not the VT3xx[1,2,3]—then most other emulators followed suit[4]—then XTerm switched to following the hardware[5,6] (unless you and that’s what I’m seeing on my machine right now. So now you need to check if you’re on XTerm ≥ 369 or not[7]. If I’m reading the Notcurses code right, other terminals have followed suit[8].

Again, ouch.

P.S. It seems DEC had an internal doc for how their terminals should operate (DEC STD 070) [9]. It does not document DECSDM at all.

[1] https://github.com/wez/wezterm/issues/217#issuecomment-86449...

[2] https://github.com/hackerb9/lsix/issues/41

[3] https://github.com/dankamongmen/notcurses/issues/1782

[4] https://github.com/arakiken/mlterm/pull/23

[5] https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.log.html#xterm_369

[6] https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h3-T...

[7] https://github.com/dankamongmen/notcurses/commit/0918fa251e2... (the correct version cutoff is 369 not 359, the patch contains a now-fixed bug)

[8] https://github.com/dankamongmen/notcurses/blob/master/src/li... (look for mentions of invertsixel)

[9] http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/standards/EL-SM070-00_DEC_S...

And there's also the notcurses library:

> Yeah... xterm with a few tweaks (and some pruning) would still be best for me.

Check https://github.com/csdvrx/CuteXterm for my bag of tricks :)

xterm offers the best emulation, period. The developer is reactive and maintain high quality standards. The only real issues for me are the lack of configurable shortcuts, and ligatures. wezterm is a good option if you need these, and don't depend on xterm perfect emulation.

> Most emulate an xterm, which didn't have support for graphics

Start your xterm with the right flags and it will.

If you want a premade configuration, see https://github.com/csdvrx/CuteXterm

See my rant on https://github.com/csdvrx/cuteXterm

> Surely you need AHK because Windows is less configurable

No, because it lets me do remap like having Caps be both Control and Esc - and I do the same with Enter being both Control when used with another key, and Enter alone. My Alt keys are Alt keys when used with another key, or Home/End when used alone.

> How are you using terminals in Windows? Like you want to SSH from a fresh install, what do I do?

Install openssh from the windows settings (check https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administrati...)

I'd recommend the latest Windows terminal from the Microsoft store, or mintty from msys2, but that's just for comfort :)

> I find Linux superior here, but interested to learn why you're the opposite; maybe I'm doing it wrong

I like sixels, so I prefer mintty, but even without sixels, I find the Windows experience better: I want cute fonts with ligatures in my terminal. I want proper support of bold, underline, italic. I want multiple tabs. I want to map key actions to everything - like, I want my terminal to change its color profile and font with just 1 key.

That's very hard on Linux. That's easy on Windows.

https://github.com/csdvrx/cuteXterm#why-did-you-make-cutexte...

If I was feeling playful, I'd point you to https://github.com/csdvrx/cuteXterm and grab some popcorn while you turn red and pretend it doesn't matter and we could have a fun debate.

Apologies for misgendering you. My opinion that you come off like a windows fangirl was mostly due to the other rant you linked in the sixel-tmux rant: https://github.com/csdvrx/cutexterm#wait-i-thought-people-sa...

Here you mention some other things unrelated to terminals, and I was mostly addressing those. It seems to me you want a specific type of experience on Linux, but you can't get that, so therefore dismiss the merits of Linux. I think a lot of your impressions on Linux come from using an X11 based setup instead of Wayland. Completely different beasts, and I think a lot of your grievances would be solved by the latter.

For me, I cannot go back to Windows, ethical reasons aside: Sway on Wayland is perfect for me, and it's what I want out of my computing experience.

I actually agree with a lot that is written in those rants, particularly the VTE and gnome terminal situation. It's just your comments on windows vs linux came across as very personal imo, so I suppose I have retorted here with also a somewhat personal rant.

Also, I don't think either platform has many good terminal choices. Besides mintty, I don't think there are that many good (platform exclusive) terminal emulators on Windows. And on Linux, Foot is one of the few that meets my criteria, including top tier Sixel support (though Wezterm meets my criteria too if it wasn't so slow, hopefully it gets faster). But, for example, I could never really like mintty if I was forced to use Windows, because it lacks features I want.

What I'm trying to say: different needs, different use cases, different tastes. Sorry that my original rant came off so negatively to you and that I wasn't able to convey this point I was trying to make.