lobster VS py2many

I think lobster does this.

"Compile time reference counting / lifetime analysis / borrow checker."[1]

"Reference Counting with cycle detection at exit, 95% of reference count ops removed at compile time thanks to lifetime analysis."[1]

[1] https://strlen.com/lobster/

There is another language, Lobster, that uses lifetime analysis like Rust, but IIUC infers lifetimes completely automatically. It looks like the idea is still experimental - I'm interested to see how it goes.

I think the ability to open a window and do graphical stuff is actually pretty underrated in core language functionality. There's a few game-oriented programming languages like Lobster that put windowing and graphics in the core language functionality, and I think it's pretty neat. The biggest downside is that it's a lot to bite off, because you'll probably want to have standardized API functionality for a whole host of things like font rendering, image loading, etc.

The actual game itself, yes. Based on this open source project though which provides the language its written in and core engine tech: https://github.com/aardappel/lobster

I'm keeping an eye on Lobster though. It fixes most of Python's problems. It's way faster, has proper static typing, the import system is sane, etc.

Lobster (https://strlen.com/lobster/) appears to at least do lifetime analysis to reduce refcounting. I'm not sure about automatic interior mutability. I feel like there's a keyword here that can help find other compilers with similar features.

Also, can I introduce you to https://strlen.com/lobster/, a garbage collected language made for game development by (and primarily for) the one and only Wouter "aardappel" van Oortmerssen?

I would like to make it work to some degree like Rust with a borrow checker, and have optional static typing (with type inference wherever it can). Other sources of inspiration, lobster lang, and dart. It is going to (eventually...) compile to several places like dart (browser, iOS, android, linux, etc.). After I've created the AST, I've gone straight to code generation, because that's the easy part IME. But now have to insert the "middle" and do typechecking/borrowchecking/inference/other checking. This is for an imperative-style language.

Over the ~12 years of Lobster (https://strlen.com/lobster/) 's existence, features that were removed (in this order): * Lexical scoping. * Icon style backtracking. * Small-talk like syntax. * Dynamic Typing. * Multimethods. * Frame based state (like FRP). * Co-routines.

> Another problem is that there are hundreds of built-in library functions that need to be compiled from Python from C

An approach I've advocated as one of the main authors of py2many is that all of the python builtin functions be written in a subset of python[1] and then compiled into native code. This has the benefit of avoiding GIL, problems with C-API among other things.

Do checkout the examples here[2] which work out of the box for many of the 8-9 supported backends.

[1] https://github.com/py2many/py2many/blob/main/doc/langspec.md

https://github.com/py2many/py2many/blob/main/doc/langspec.md

Reimplement a large enough, commonly used subset of python stdlib using this dialect and we may be in the business of writing cross platform apps (perhaps start with android and Ubuntu/Gnome)

For py2many, there is an informal specification here:

https://github.com/py2many/py2many/blob/main/doc/langspec.md

Would be great if all the authors of "python-like" languages get together and come up with a couple of specs.

I say a couple, because there are ones that support the python runtime (such as cython) and the ones which don't (like py2many).

It'd not fully solve your issue, but have you ever seen https://github.com/py2many/py2many ?

Cython doesn't consume python3 type hints and needs special type hints of its own. But it's certainly more mature than other players in the field.

What we need is a rpython suitable for app programming and a stdlib written in that dialect.

https://github.com/py2many/py2many/blob/main/doc/langspec.md

No intermediate AST. To understand the various stages of transpilation and separation of language specific and independent rewriters, this file is a good starting point:

https://github.com/adsharma/py2many/blob/main/py2many/cli.py...

Link to the test that's relevant for this discussion:

https://github.com/adsharma/py2many/blob/main/tests/cases/in...

This is an explicit deviation from python's bigint, which doesn't map very well to systemsey languages. The next logical step is to build on this to have dependent and refinement types.

Work in progress here:

https://github.com/adsharma/Typpete