janet VS babashka

I first came across something like this in janet, which includes a PEG system in the standard library. It definitely changed how I think about text processing. Very much of the time what I find myself doing with regex is defining a grammar, but I didn't realize that. I wish more languages included the tools for it, it's a core operation of practical programming.

https://janet-lang.org

...I of course would rather embed Janet [1], but I realize what is going to have an easier time gaining popularity %) Also, Lua has Löve [2] which could be immediately usable, among other things.

[1]: https://janet-lang.org/

[2]: https://www.love2d.org/

I don't think it has absolutely all that, but janet might be close?

https://janet-lang.org/

> Would you write your own JSON parser, is it that easy in LISP?

I only dally with Lisp(s) but probably not, I'd reach for a library in quicklisp.

However, in Janet (https://janet-lang.org/) there's a PEG parser and I wrote a JSON parser for fun in 134 lines that passes most of the test suite by Nicolas Seriot.

So I'd say it's reasonably easy for a better-skilled programmer than I am.

Only tangentially related, but for anyone interested in the idea of a simple, quick Python-like scripting Lisp, there are two Clojure-style languages to look at:

1) Hy (https://hylang.org/, compiles to Python bytecode, usually slower than Python but compatible with all Python libraries)

2) Janet (https://janet-lang.org/, very light Lua-style embeddable VM ~1 Mb, roughly twice as fast as Python for similar ops, very easy C interop)

Seems like a perfect use-case for Janet. (https://janet-lang.org/) A fast minimal VM like Lua, but even more extensible than Lua by being a "Lisp" with macro and C extension capabilities. Not a true Lisp, it's very pragmatic and performance-oriented. But it keeps the good stuff.

You might be looking for: https://janet-lang.org/

It comes with a build tool `jpm` which installs dependencies globally by default, but you can have it be installed in your project folder as well.

I like Clojure, but I never had any good opportunities to use it other than for a few small hobby projects. It is unfortunate that it is so huge with tons of dependencies and no simpler native implementation. I started looking at various LISPs and Schemes to find something lighter to use instead and ended up settling for Janet that I think is Clojure-like enough to be comfortable to use, but in a small native binary with no dependencies and can be embedded in other native programs. I am sure for big, real, projects that Clojure makes more sense, but for my hobby projects and scripts I do not think I will install it again. I am still happy for the things I learned from learning Clojure. It was a real eye-opener for an old OO-programmer.

https://janet-lang.org/

Good reminders; just not readily seeing Babashka (Clojure through GraalVM) so mentioning here for sake of sexp closure.

https://github.com/babashka/babashka

> Does any of this release help with startup time?

Clojure (and indirectly Java) was never created with "fast startup speed" in mind. This is why things like `add-lib` (that was added in this release) is so useful, because you start your developing session once, and it stays open until you either have to restart your computer or done developing the project.

Then the typical deployment target is either "Push this .jar to a server somehow, start the process and let it run" or "User double-clicks executable, waits for application to be ready".

If you really need fast startup, you can go through something like https://github.com/ionutbalosin/faster-jvm-start-up-techniqu...

Or if you're fine with slightly worse runtime performance, give https://github.com/babashka/babashka a try

Finally, if you're OK with JavaScript you could give ClojureScript a try, has fast startup (as fast as NodeJS I suppose) but yeah, it's JavaScript.

But overall, Clojure/Java isn't optimized for the use-case of "Start process for each request, stop process once processed" so I'm guessing you'll face an uphill battle there.

You should meet this nice https://github.com/babashka/babashka !

It is Clojure written in Clojure compiled to native via GraalVM.

A bit late to the party but have you heard of or tried babashka? It's kinda the nuclear option but it might fit your use case.

https://babashka.org/

Check out Babashka. It's a single binary that runs Clojure without a JVM. It also starts up really fast and uses a lot less memory: https://github.com/babashka/babashka

That said, there are reasons you may want to use the JVM Clojure later. It might be interesting to read the replies to another poster with similar concerns about the JVM: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40445415

It also gives you access to Babashka if you want Clojure for other use-cases where start-up time is an issue

https://babashka.org/

I've tried researching this myself and can't find too much. There's this project metaes which is an mci for JS, and there's the SCI module of the Clojure babashka project, but that's about it. I also saw Triska's video on mci but it was pretty theoretical.