interface-types VS Theseus

Some things that might greatly increase wasm usage and overall tooling:

1) Tools that run docker containers and serverless function services (like AWS lambda) to support providing a .wasm files instead

2) Garbage collection in the runtime to make GC languages easier to port to wasm

3) Dynamically typed languages (NodeJS, Python, Ruby) being able to compile to webassembly directly instead of porting the runtime to webassembly and then running the code through the runtime. This is a big ask though, basically needs to redesign the runtime completely

4) wasm-DOM bindings will enable other languages to do HTML rendering which will require new web frameworks for every language that wants to take over the space from JS. This will lead to (even more) fragmentation of the web ecosystem

5) A new wasm-first SDK (unrelated to the DOM) for building cross platform applications. I can see this taking off only if it is built-into the browsers and backed by some standards committee, so not very likely I think

6) Something like the Interface Types proposal ( https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/main/pro... ) becomes a thing allowing wasm programs to be consisted of modules written in several different languages and being able to call said modules with low or 0 runtime performance hit (and of course, no compilation to multiple CPU archs). So much of programming ecosystems are locked to specific languages (like data science with python) when there is little technical reason for it be like that.

AFAIK GC is irrelevant for "direct DOM access", you would rather want to hop into the following rabbit hole:

- reference types: https://github.com/WebAssembly/reference-types/blob/master/p...

- interface types (inactive): https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/main/pro...

- component model: https://github.com/WebAssembly/component-model

If this looks like a mess, that's because it is. Compared to that, the current solution to go through a Javascript shim doesn't look too bad IMHO.

I'm not really optimistic that particular aspect will get much improvement. Many people expected interface types to come save the day, but after a looong stagnation that proposal has been archived (for now) in favour of component types, which has much less potential for performance gains.

Really good questions. Unfortunately, most of the issues I found back then were fundamental ones. I've seen that Wasm has deprecated "Interface Types" and is now working on the "Component Model". But even then, as far as I understand that would only avoid the serialization and deserialization steps, and you would still need to copy complex types. It will be more performant, but I don't think it would be enough for Tremor either.

wasm doesn't know anything about the outside world on purpose. This allows it to be used in other domains. For direct access to the DOM et al, interface types are being developed. It's a non-trivial problem to interoperate with a dynamically typed GC'd language from any statically typed no-GC language that can compile to wasm.

You may want to look into WASM interface types, which is defining what amounts to am IDL for WASM and different languages have common calling conventions: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/08/webassembly-interface-type...

I don’t know if there’s a better intro article. I believe this is the current iteration of the proposal: https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/main/pro...

Yes, and if I'm not mistaken, this is the RFC

I see no reason why not. See the interface types proposal for a proposed solution.

Wanted to get thoughts from the Rust experts on this - the author of the Yew framework seems to think that Web Assembly Interface Types (https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/master/proposals/interface-types/Explainer.md) will allow Yew to eventually become faster than Vue, React, Angular, etc. Is there general consensus on this in the Rust community? The prospect of mixing Rust (for the performance critical pieces) with TS on the front end doesn't seem super appealing to me.

Theseus OS (https://www.theseus-os.com/) is also an OS written in Rust. It's a safe-language OS and I believe it's the future of the OSes due to its unique features.

I believe that Tock (tockos.org) and Theseus (https://github.com/theseus-os/Theseus) are in this area a bit as well, just from an actual OS perspective.

I don't know much about this area, but it would be wonderful if these could work with the Libre compute boards, like the AM Logic S905X (Lepotato) or the Rock chip, since they're so much cheaper than a Pi.

We could use some help here: https://github.com/theseus-os/Theseus

Relevant, also an OS written in and made possible by Rust: https://www.theseus-os.com/

I think Theseus is to conventional OSes what Rust is to JavaScript.

I wonder if somehow someday Microsoft Windows can be rerooted as something like wine running in user space of a rust os like https://github.com/theseus-os/Theseus

We've been working on porting Theseus OS to aarch64 over the past few months, feel free to browse our code if you need help understanding anything. Theseus is written from scratch entirely in Rust, so it's likely quite relevant to your work. You can probably find all of the aarch64-related commits and issues just by searching "aarch64" on the repo.

I mean, there are several rust kernel/os projects in progress.

One project that's pushing on the boundary of safety and composability is Thesus, which takes language safety to new ground by shifting traditionally OS-level responsibilities like resource management all the way down to typechecks in the language, and also explores a way of updating any core OS component on a live running system. https://github.com/theseus-os/Theseus

There's also KataOS which google just recently announced: https://opensource.googleblog.com/2022/10/announcing-kataos-...

As you note, these things take time, I agree with sibling that none of them are likely to be "enterprise-grade" or "production ready" this decade.

Not to rain on your parade, but you've essentially just described Theseus OS.