hubris VS tock

Is that the same extremely high-quality open-source code that currently has a failing build?

https://github.com/oxidecomputer/hubris

With respect to Hubris, the build badge was, in turns out, pointing to a stale workflow. (That is, the build was succeeding, but the build badge was busted.) This comment has been immortalized in the fix.[0]

With respect to Humility, I am going to resist the temptation of pointing out why one of those directories has a different nomenclature with respect to its delimiter -- and just leave it at this: if you really want to find some filthy code in Humility, you can do much, much better than that!

[0] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/hubris/commit/651a9546b20ce...

A lot of questions in there! Taking these in order:

1. We aren't making standalone servers: the Oxide compute sled comes in the Oxide rack. So are not (and do not intend to be) a drop in replacement for extant rack mounted servers.

2. We have taken a fundamentally different approach to firmware, with a true root of trust that can attest to the service processor -- which can turn attest to the system software. This prompts a lot of questions (e.g., who attests to the root of trust?), and there is a LOT to say about this; look for us to talk a lot more about this

3. In stark contrast (sadly) to nearly everyone else in the server space, the firmware we are developing is entirely open source. More details on that can be found in Cliff Biffle's 2021 OSFC talk and the Hubris and Humility repos.[0][1][2]

4. Definitely not vaporware! We are in the process of shipping to our first customers; you can follow our progress in our Oxide and Friends podcast.[3]

[0] https://www.osfc.io/2021/talks/on-hubris-and-humility-develo...

[1] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/hubris

[2] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/humility

[3] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/

everywhere, for example in https://github.com/oxidecomputer/hubris/search?q=dyn

Is Box really allocating here? Is the "Rust By Example" text incomplete?

Then I had to stop learning Rust for other reasons, but this doubt really hit me at the time.

I work on an embedded OS in Rust (Hubris) that has a very bespoke build system. As part of the build system, it has to set environmental variables based on (1) the target device and (2) the specific "task"; this is an OS with task-level isolation, so tasks are compiled as individual Rust crates.

When we started the company, we knew it would be a three year build -- and indeed, our first product is in the final stages of development (i.e. EMC/safety certification). We have been very transparent about our progress along the way[0][1][2][3][4][5][6][7] -- and our software is essentially all open source, so you can follow along there as well.[8][9][10]

If you are asking "does anyone want a rack-scale computer?" the (short) answer is: yes, they do. The on-prem market has been woefully underserved -- and there are plenty of folks who are sick of Dell/HPE/VMware/Cisco, to say nothing of those who are public cloud borne and wondering if they should perhaps own some of their own compute rather than rent it all.

[0] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/episodes/holistic-bo...

[1] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/episodes/the-oxide-s...

[2] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/episodes/bringup-lab...

[3] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/episodes/more-tales-...

[4] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/episodes/another-lpc...

[5] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/episodes/the-pragmat...

[6] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/episodes/tales-from-...

[7] https://oxide-and-friends.transistor.fm/episodes/the-sidecar...

[8] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/omicron

[9] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/propolis

[10] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/hubris

Hubris is a microkernel-ish OS for embedded systems, and has a bunch of documentation about its design:

https://hubris.oxide.computer/reference/

It's all open-source on Github:

https://github.com/oxidecomputer/hubris

(I work at Oxide, mostly using Hubris)

Ahh whoops you’re right, lol. Embarrassing.

Hubris was designed to be easy to port to RISC-V, so yes! We didn’t end up doing that though. Someone else did though! https://github.com/oxidecomputer/hubris/discussions/365

I'm writing code for low-level management of fully custom servers and network switches, working in the Hubris repository (which is open source!)

I'm definitely not the best person to answer this, but honestly it's not bad. Here's an example of a moderately complex peripheral, the cortex-m MPU, and how one rust OS handles it:

https://github.com/tock/tock/blob/3a0527d586702b8ae8cb242391...

Reads and writes turn into volatile reads, so everything works out under the hood. You get the benefits of everything having good names, declared sizes, and proper typing on your register accesses. You can extend that to bit accesses as well.

Rust still has a few areas it isn't competitive in, like your hyper limited or obscure chips (e.g. 8051s, XAP), mature tooling around formal methods, and a certification story for safety critical code. People are working on these latter two issues (e.g. ferrocene) and supposedly very close to public delivery, but you know how slow the industry is to adopt new things even then.

Yeah, and I like I mentioned in the earlier comment, omitting the frame pointer reduces code size by 10% on RISC-V targets, which is huge when dealing with embedded flash: https://github.com/tock/tock/pull/1660

Tock is an excellent embedded OS written in Rust and has some good industrial support. I think Tock gets a lot of stuff right and I highly recommend some of the talks the developers gave on it.

Unfortunately, it increases the code size by 10%. I was looking into this just last week, and can confirm that it's still a problem on the latest version of Rust nightly: https://github.com/tock/tock/pull/1660

I wish we could have frame pointers, because they would make working in embedded land so much easier and more reliable, but a 10% increase in code size just isn't worth it.

TockOS was the first rust RTOS I found. Coincidentally, it has had support for the esp32c3 for over a year now.

Rust kernels are totally reasonable and the code can be reasonable also, I was recently reading the source of the Tock operating system, https://github.com/tock/tock and it makes me want to grab some risc hardware and try my hand.

tock is a pretty sweet minimal embedded kernel to run >1 isolated applications that might need to share peripherals.