Graal VS teavm

Contrary to what vocal Kotlin advocates might believe, Kotlin only matters on Android, and that is thanks to Google pushing it no matter what.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023

https://snyk.io/reports/jvm-ecosystem-report-2021/

And even so, they had to conceed Android and Kotlin on their own, without the Java ecosystem aren't really much useful, thus ART is now updatable via Play Store, and currently supports OpenJDK 17 LTS on Android 12 and later devices.

As for your question regarding numbers, mostly Java 74.6%, C++ 13.7%, on the OpenJDK, other JVM implementations differ, e.g. GraalVM is mostly Java 91.8%, C 3.6%.

https://github.com/openjdk/jdk

https://github.com/oracle/graal

Two examples from many others, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines

Pkl was built using the GraalVM Truffle framework. So it supports runtime compilation using Futurama Projections. We have been working with Apple on this for a while, and I am quite happy that we can finally read the sources!

https://github.com/oracle/graal/tree/master/truffle

Disclaimer: graalvm dev here.

That's pretty interesting. It's not as aggressive as Bee sounds, but the Espresso JVM is somewhat similar in concept. It's a full blown JVM written in Java with all the mod cons, which can either be compiled ahead of time down to memory-efficient native code giving something similar to a JVM written in C++, or run itself as a Java application on top of another JVM. In the latter mode it obviously doesn't achieve top-tier performance, but the advantage is you can easily hack on it using all the regular Java tools, including hotswapping using the debugger.

When run like this, the bytecode interpreter, runtime system and JIT compiler are all regular Java that can be debugged, edited, explored in the IDE, recompiled quickly and so on. Only the GC is provided by the host system. If you compile it to native code, the GC is also written in Java (with some special conventions to allow for convenient direct memory access).

What's most interesting is that Espresso isn't a direct translation of what a classical C++ VM would look like. It's built on the Truffle framework, so the code is extremely high level compared to traditional VM code. Details like how exactly transitions between the interpreter/compiled code happen, how you communicate pointer maps to the GC and so on are all abstracted away. You don't even have to invoke the JIT compiler manually, that's done for you too. The only code Espresso really needs is that which defines the semantics of the Java bytecode language and associated tools like the JDWP debugger protocol.

https://github.com/oracle/graal/tree/master/espresso

This design makes it easy to experiment with new VM features that would be too difficult or expensive to implement otherwise. For example it implements full hotswap capability that lets you arbitrarily redefine code and data on the fly. Espresso can also fully self-host recursively without limit, meaning you can achieve something like what's described in the paper by running Espresso on top of Espresso.

I'm also using GraalVM if that's of any help.

Quarkus is one of Java frameworks for microservices development and cloud-native deployment. It is developed as container-first stack and working with GraalVM and HotSpot virtual machines (VM).

Apologies, I didn't mean to imply DCEVM went poof, just that I was sad it didn't make it into OpenJDK so one need not do JDK silliness between the production one and the "debugging one" since my experience is that's an absolutely stellar way to produce Heisenbugs

And I'll be straight: Graal scares me 'cause Oracle but I just checked and it looks to the casual observer that it's straight-up GPLv2 now so maybe my fears need revisiting: https://github.com/oracle/graal/blob/vm-23.1.0/LICENSE

> to be compiled to a single executable is a strength that Java does not have

I think this is very outdated claim: https://www.graalvm.org/

https://github.com/oracle/graal/issues/7182

Joel from our team worked on the initial prototype for WASI support in TeaVM (https://github.com/konsoletyper/teavm/pull/610), and we temporarily forked before the WASI support made it to the official repo.

Good reminder to deprecate that now!

A number of concerns with the viability of the current WASM GC are covered here (Google translation to English):

https://habr-com.translate.goog/ru/articles/757182/?_x_tr_sl...

and the original article:

https://habr.com/ru/articles/757182/

This is from the author of TeaVM, who has 10 years of experience getting Java and JVM code to run efficiently in the browser. https://teavm.org/

TeaVM's existing transpilation of Java to JavaScript performs well (using the browsers JS GC). It will be interesting to see if WASM GC matures to the point where it is even faster.

Uses this apparently: https://github.com/konsoletyper/teavm

How does this compare to say the TeaVM (https://github.com/konsoletyper/teavm) which I know only has "experimental" WASM support at the moment?

For Java, no WASM file is requested. Maybe the Java code was transpiled to JavaScript, perhaps using TeaVM.

>> It's not like you can take a random JAR and convert it to WASM.

Maybe you can:

TeaVM is an ahead-of-time compiler for Java bytecode that emits JavaScript and WebAssembly that runs in a browser. Its close relative is the well-known GWT. The main difference is that TeaVM does not require source code, only compiled class files. Moreover, the source code is not required to be Java, so TeaVM successfully compiles Kotlin and Scala.

https://teavm.org/

I have never had an opportunity to try out TeaVM, but it seems promising.

For a fast, lightweight, Java-based front-end, try TeaVM and its Flavour toolkit:

https://teavm.org/

It is easy to get started by using the maven archtetype, there's an tutorial in Java Magazine here:

https://blogs.oracle.com/javamagazine/post/java-in-the-brows...

With TeamVM and Flavour you get a full front-end SPA framework that lets you code business logic in Java, and pair that with HTML and CSS to make components.

To see what it can do, check out Wordii, a fast-paced 5-letter word game:

> Someone will make the JRE run on WASM

https://teavm.org/

Minecraft contains some native dependencies, though; you'll need something like https://copy.sh/v86/ or https://bellard.org/jslinux/ with the right operating system image to run it in browser.